Wednesday, February 6, 2013

Personal Change


Marta BP: Hi!

Sandra Dodd: Holly and I just zipped back from Trader Joe's, I put rice in the rice cooker and set up the chicken to bake, and she's arranging flowers. Nice life.

Laura Z: Jealous of your Trader Joe's!

Marta BP: Nice!

Sandra Dodd: We're having company tonight, Andy Corbley and his friend and bass player, D-Rock, on their way to Los Angeles.
Sandra Dodd: But Holly works tonight. She was expecting them by noon, but they had a flat and are a little behind schedule.
Sandra Dodd: I'm glad we have a Trader Joe's. (We have two, and there's another one in Santa Fe, so we're rich in that. :-)
Sandra Dodd: Trader Joe's is interesting. It's like a gift shop of food. Like Artisan Groceries.

Jill Parmer: When I check the closest Trader Joe's on their website. It says: Santa Fe, 7hours driving time.

Sandra Dodd: Each thing is either rare or specially packaged, or has a great name, or something.
Sandra Dodd: Nothing is boring. :-) And they hire artists. The bananas were stacked artfully, and many signs are hand-made, or local to the town or area.

Robin B.: The Trader Joe's flyers are really fun to read, too.

Marta BP: Their website is cute.
Marta BP: Is it expensive?

Robin B.: No.

Sandra Dodd: Some things are and some aren't.

Robin B.: Their prices are really good. Ours moved to a new location (about equidistant from the old one for us), but the parking is really difficult. But they're more visible, so maybe it evens out.

ivalee joined the chat

Robin B.: Staples are reasonable.

Sandra Dodd: The Irish Breakfast tea is $2.99 for 80 teabags, packaged English-style (no paper envelopes, no tags or strings, fastened together in twos, for a teapot).

ivalee: Hello!

Sandra Dodd: They have flowers that come from California, chosen and packaged for them, so the Albuquerque store can have flowers that aren't otherwise available in town. They particularize it. :-)

Laura Z: Seems every time we move to a new place a Trader Joe's opens up just after.

ivalee: And here I am with green. :( Sorry Sandra.

Sandra Dodd: They have candy-coated sunflower seeds (outsides like the outsides of M&Ms, in dusty-rose-pallette colors).
Sandra Dodd: Ivalee, my only reservation here is I get the plain green. :-)

Marta BP: Hmmm, yummy.

ivalee: Noted
ivalee: And changed. :)

Sandra Dodd: So! When we have ten people, or at half-past the hour (on the hour, if anyone's here from India), we'll go to the topic.

ivalee: Remind me please the proper way to sign out. is it /(no space)bye?

Sandra Dodd
Yes, Ivalee.
The topic today is personal change--the growth of the unschooling parent.
Sandra Dodd: There, if you want to read what's on page 192 of the book.
Sandra Dodd: We could have a fire drill! Everyone leave the room and come back in!!!
Sandra Dodd left the chat

Laura Z: Perfect timing with that FB food stuff.

Sandra Dodd joined the chat
Sandra Dodd: You guys are uncooperative at fire drills.

Marta BP: Hahahaha!

Sandra Dodd: Laura, good. I'm glad something was perfect about that, because I was getting my ass kicked on the side. :-)

ivalee left the chat 

Sandra Dodd left the chat 
Sandra Dodd joined the chat
Sandra Dodd: Ivalee, come baaaack!!!

ivalee joined the chat
ivalee: I got lost there for a moment.
ivalee: :)

AlexPolikowsky joined the chat

Sandra Dodd: My ass didn't stay kicked, but there was an attempted beat-her-up-in-the-alley action.

Laura Z: I love FB but not for the ability for people to just come back with fast emotional retorts. :(

ivalee: Yes!

AlexPolikowsky: What are you guys up to? Fire drills?

Sandra Dodd: Too late, Alex. If this chat room catches fire, type /bye on a line by itself. That's all. Or if you're leaving during the chat, or if the chat is over.

ivalee: I've been wanting to distance myself from Facebook but certainly don't want to miss the side content that happens there...

Sandra Dodd: I can't keep up with even my own kids' walls on facebook. But I read a bit now and then.

Robin B.: I missed the fire drill. Nuts!
Robin B.: I liked them in high school. I'd try to sneak a smoke <g>.

Laura Z: I liked in school too because I could skip the rest of the day.

Robin B.: Alex, come back!
Robin B.: What did you do, Laura. Just walk home?

Laura Z: I spent my days trying to figure out how I could get out of the rest of the day of school to go do things more interesting.
Laura Z: Alex, I would just leave and grab the bus. Then again I spent most of my high school days explaining why I didn't do my homework, getting suspended or with my mom at the principals office.
Laura Z: Or the teachers telling me "if only she would try,... she's so bright what a waste".

Robin B.: You were braver than I.

Laura Z: Or just less worried about consequences.

Robin B.: That, too.

Alex Polikowsky joined the chat 

Jihong joined the chat

Laura Z: Hey Robin so you have Mexican Coca Cola as well?

Alex Polikowsky: I am back!
Alex Polikowsky: Was on the phone but Daniel let me use his computer. Gigi is in the laptop.

Robin B.: Yes, Laura. Our grocery store carries it.

ivalee: I had a mother who would sign me out and write notes every time. Even though they told us every year that if a student missed more than 5 days they wouldn't pass. I guess my 45+ days per year were okay since she approved of them.

Sandra Dodd: We get Mexican coca cola at Costco.

Marta BP: Sweet MD, Alex. ;)

Laura Z: It's the only coke I can drink that doesn't leave an aftertaste in my mouth.

Erica Jones joined the chat 2 hours ago

Robin B.: Canadian Coke is like that, too. Sweetened with sugar.

Alex Polikowsky: I love the mexican sodas in glass bottles! The best!

Marta BP: Portuguese Coke is good, too.

Laura Z: I bet... in France it tasted different too.

Sandra Dodd: I don't like coke, and don't drink it at all, except.... When I'm in England if there's not a better option, I'll drink Coke there. It's as good as Mexican coke, and reminds me of home, even though at home I never drink Coke. :-)
Sandra Dodd: I didn't taste any anywhere else.
Sandra Dodd: At home, I drink iced tea, root beer or Dr Pepper.

Alex Polikowsky: I like diet coke or diet Dr Pepper with certain food.

Sandra Dodd: England sometimes has Dr Pepper.

Laura Z: I don't drink much Coke either Sandra, but if you ever taste the Mexican one it's yummy, especially with lime squeezed in it. Otherwise I like Izze's at home.

Robin B.: I can't drink diet drinks - the sweeteners leave an aftertaste for me.

Alex Polikowsky: But I really like sparkling water for everyday.

Sandra Dodd: It's time!! It's time to talk about personal growth!

Robin B.: Izze's is good. I like the Rhubarb one.

Marta BP: Yay!

Alex Polikowsky: Very cold icy sparkling water.

Capn Franko joined the chat

Robin B.: Or maybe that's a different make...oh well.
Robin B.: Frank!!

Capn Franko: King of the Coke junkies is here.

ivalee: :) My almost three year old just made the connection that croutons are made of bread. He's so surprised. :)

Marta BP: (I don't think we have Dr. Pepper here, but we have an American store in town now, so I'm not so sure about the no-Dr-Pepper anymore).

Sandra Dodd: (Keith and Holly lzze)

Capn Franko: Also, science nerd who is biting his tongue about the conversation on Fb.

Sandra Dodd: I don't need Dr Pepper in Portugal.

Marta BP: :)

Jill Parmer: I love drinking winter cold Colorado water... so good!!

Sandra Dodd: Which one, Frank? If you know the history of theories about gravity, you should jump in.

Marta BP: I'll try to have some Iced Tea for you, then.

Sandra Dodd: It's possible Europe went from "God said so" to "weight of spinning planet" or whatever the going theory is.

Capn Franko: I threw out a *brief* comment about G but I can't get started there or I'll get mean way too fast.

Sandra Dodd: Marta, don't; it's okay. I'll drink what you guys drink.

Erica Jones joined the chat

Sandra Dodd: Yeah, don't get mean. There's enough mean over there.

Capn Franko: Exactly.

Marta BP: That'll be water, then. ;) Oh, and some orange juice.

Robin B.: One of the big anti-GMO proponents in the UK has changed his mind lately. I find that interesting.

Sandra Dodd: SO! Personal growth.

Capn Franko: I've been less and less depressed, bitter, and angry in recent decades!
Capn Franko: That's what unschooling has done for me personally, aside from family benefits.

Sandra Dodd: I'm way more patient.

Erica Jones: Me too Sandra. More understanding and loving.

Jill Parmer: I'm more curious and excited about others' ideas, desires. And have gotten better and better at seeing more options, and problem solving.

Sandra Dodd: When I scanned the horizon, so to speak, at a museum or flea market or library or list of workshops or classes, I used to see them all as kind of grey and boring unless they were my few favorite topics--the Middle Ages, traditional music, religion... But now I see all of it in color, because even if I'm not interested in it myself, I know someone who would be, and I can see all the connections there would be.

Marta BP: Beautiful, Sandra. :)

HeatherB joined the chat

Laura Z joined the chat

HeatherB: I'm better at listening to that voice inside my head that is me. Not my mom, grandma, teacher, friend. I listen more to when I'm hungry, when I need to rest, when I've lost interest in a project, or book, or movie.

Jihong: If without my kids, I would never have gotten into so many interesting things.

HeatherB: I'm WAY less likely to label something good or bad.

ivalee: I wish I could figure out how I stumbled upon Unschooling but it's all so fuzzy for me. It felt so natural but has changed our lives completely yet in very subtle ways. It really does color everything.

Sandra Dodd: Some of these things we're talking about probably come with age and wisdom, but unschooling can't possibly be hurting it! :-)
Sandra Dodd: Like Jihong, there are things I never would have known about if not for my kids. Some of my best smiles and laughter in the past 25 years have been from things they showed me, asked me, told me they thought I would like.

trista: I find myself frustrated that some people have a difficult time seeing things from a different perspective, and realize that I used to be that person. It makes it so much easier to create a peaceful, happy home when you have the patience and ability to put yourself in another's position and realize their needs.

Marta BP: I'm not so sure I would have become less anxious and negative with age and wisdom, or more aware and present...

Robin B.: This might sound funny, but I'm more judgmental. But that's in terms of judging what would be better or worse for my relationship with my daughter (and husband). Before unschooling, I just wouldn't have weighed the options as carefully.

HeatherB: Marta: I was just about to say that!
HeatherB: Unschooling definitely helped me with that.

Erica Jones: Unschooling helps me be more mindful & intentional.

Robin B.: So maybe more thoughtful, overall.

Sandra Dodd: Kirby posted this yesterday, of a baby dancing. You might need to pause it so it can load. It's not on facebook, or I would embed it in the chat transcript.

HeatherB: I was taking antidepressants and Ambien to sleep each night because of the amount of anxiety I had on a daily basis. I really and truly feel that unschooling got me off of my medication.

Sandra Dodd: Robin, more discerning. Not judgmental.

Robin B.: Love that! I have one of twin boys dancing that together.
Robin B.: That's the word!
Robin B.: Discerning.

HeatherB: Three months after I saw Sandra speak at HSC I had stopped taking both of them and my refill for Xanex lapsed and I haven't gone back for more.

Sandra Dodd: Nice, Heather!

Robin B.: That's great, Heather.

Erica Jones: I love that video. :)

HeatherB: I have no doubt at all that it was the control that I was trying to exert over everything that kept me locked up in this cycle of negativity and in an anxious state.

Marta BP: Wow, Heather! Great!

HeatherB: So, once I chilled out... I didn't need meds anymore to help me chill :)

Robin B.: I'm seeing that in my daughter, that kind of anxiety, Heather. Maybe we can talk about that later.

Jihong: Lots of days (95%), I feel I have won lottery (kids and unschooling). Feeling in love almost everyday... that is wonderful feeling.

HeatherB: Robin, Austin has anxiety. It's kinda intense sometimes. Especially around storms and electricity going out.

Alex Polikowsky joined the chat

Robin B.: I've relaxed *a lot* about learning. I've seen the results and it's changed my view of how people actually learn. Not that I didn't understand it, but it made so much of a difference to see it all happen.

ivalee: Ah, winning the lottery... nice visual.

Robin B.: Heather, yes!

ivalee: I mean not in reality as in terms of the lottery but as with family and unschooling.

Sandra Dodd: Ivalee, of all the options people have obtained and created with families and learning all around you, once unschooling is solid it can seem like a big win. :-)

Jill Parmer: So interesting, Heather. That is really cool, your explanation for exerting control over so much that kept you in that cycle. Wow.

Robin B.: One of the best things, though, that Sandra has ever written (at least for me) is "If your child is more important than your vision of your child, life becomes easier." It still makes me teary.

HeatherB: At first I would try to soothe him and tell him there was nothing to worry about. Then I was talking to a friend who said that until he feels understood he's going to have a hard time getting past his fear. I was talking to my dad about it and we both said at the same time, "Earthquakes". That was my big fear when I was his age. I was terrified of an earthquake happening. Once I could go back and remember that fear it was so much easier for me to sit with him while he was in this intense anxious state and he's able to calm down faster now because I'm able to stay calmer remembering what it's like to be 11 and scared.

ivalee: It totally is a big win in my book. :) Although I have no desire to win an actual monetary lottery though. Lottery has created lots of drama in my life with my mother.

Sandra Dodd: I see big houses up on the side of the mountain, with vaulted ceilings and three car garages and big decks with 100-mile views, and then I think of them being maintained by gardeners and housekeepers while the owners are all out in different places, kids in expensive schools being pressured, dads working overtime, moms out working or shopping or "doing social work" or whatever... Ladies who lunch on the Santa Fe plaza...

Alex Polikowsky: For me I now think a lot more before I open my mouth. I also am so much more careful which word I use. It pains me to admit that I used to not be mindful about my words and what I said but it is the truth. I am so grateful at Sandra and unschooling for that. The discussions on Always Learning have been so inspiring. Still working on it, but way way better than I was even a couple years ago.

Sandra Dodd: and I think of how fantastic OUR house is.

Alex Polikowsky: Or last month!

Sandra Dodd: Marty still lives here at 24 (though he has a plan to move out to our old house before the end of the year) and Holly is happy being home at 21.
Sandra Dodd: Alex, I got careful about my writing from lots of correspondence as a corporate officer, and it helped me be a better mom to think about each thing I said or put down in writing, whether it was something I really believed and could defend (then, or a year or two later).

Robin B.: Last night, instead of reassuring Senna again that nothing would happen to her computer (she's lost her artwork before due to a virus), I just cuddled her up and listened. I made a conscious choice to do that instead of what normally would leap out of my mouth. Unschooling has definitely helped me do that.

Sandra Dodd: Our house has warped floors, and an iffy toilet (one of five, one of which is not at all iffy, now that I count). But LOTS of love and a safe, peaceful atmosphere.
Sandra Dodd: Robin, does she have her artwork backed up with dropbox or something like that?

ivalee: Ah yes, I worked for many years for a woman with lots of money. She was miserable and it showed in so many things. She was always trying to buy friendships. It totally changed the way I saw money, thankfully early on in my career days.

Alex Polikowsky: Sandra, it is interesting how I could be careful with what I wrote when dealing with my law school and such but not in my private life.

Sylvia Woodman joined the chat

Sandra Dodd: Alex it IS interesting for a lawyer to have separated or compartmentalized clarity. :-)

Alex Polikowsky: I love my old house. It has wonderful memories and the kids feel safe and loved and like to be home.

Robin B.: Yes, Sandra, now she does. And she wasn't so worried about that as having to lose her laptop for whatever time it took to make it right again. She said "the internet is one of my safe places (to talk with friends) and I don't like not having access."

Alex Polikowsky: Robin I understand her!
Alex Polikowsky: I think my kids feel pretty strongly about having internet access.

Sandra Dodd: One thing that it seems can only be seen in retrospect is something even hard to say, but let me try, and you can all jump in and help me if you see what I'm attempting to describe.

Robin B.: Oh, and she resisted backing up her computer because of fears that everything would somehow be lost, but eventually we did it.

Alex Polikowsky: Great Robin :)

Sandra Dodd: Side story first: I'm kind of face blind. I can meet someone two or three times and still get her mixed up with others, or be introduced and not recognize her.
Sandra Dodd: So for me, one of the things that helps me know that I've already met someone is the look in their eyes that they recognize me.
Sandra Dodd: With unschooling, when a family is established and they really get it, they know that part of the solidity is the feedback the parents get from the kids.
Sandra Dodd: They know unschooling is working because of the way their children look at them.

Alex Polikowsky: I understand. I remember faces and names but many times cannot associate them well. It takes a while for me.

Sandra Dodd: When someone is new to unschooling they want us to tell them they are unschoolers. We can't.

Jill Parmer: About money. Addi and I listened to a book about pirates, and the captain of the ship said to watch what happens when they plunder gold and bring is on ship. Gold fever sets in.

Sandra Dodd: And if 500 people signed a petition or affidavit that said "you are an unschooler" it wouldn't make it so.

Sylvia Woodman: It can feel like an exclusive club and people want in.

Sandra Dodd: They will be transformed into certain unschoolers, though, if they can keep going until they look and see the learning and the trust in their children.

Robin B.: Sandra, that is *huge*. Unschooling is working because of the way their children look at them.

Alex Polikowsky: Powerful.

Robin B.: When Senna was online with a friend who was having trouble with her parents, she said "I wish she could have parents like you guys." My heart swelled.

Erica Jones: Oh Robin that's wonderful!

Sandra Dodd: Although Holly was crucified by youtube commenters, there's a video of Holly in which she says "I *like* my parents," and it's very sweet. But of course the mean ignorant masses said nasty things about her in public. (Kirby said I should know better than to ever look at facebook comments.)

Robin B.: And, boy, I'm not perfect either!

Alex Polikowsky: Sweet.
Alex Polikowsky: Holly's video is sweet too. I thought she was great.

Sandra Dodd: Now she's all big into college classes. She does extra work, not in an "A+" competitive way, but out of enthusiasm and curiosity.

Jihong: Even my husband said, whatever you are doing is working, even though he still doesn't like video games and limits food.

trista joined the chat

Alex Polikowsky: People on the internet can be ugly. Daniel got into some discussions on youtube that were unbelievable.

Sandra Dodd: She has a friend from Mexico who's helping her with her Spanish class, and Holly's excited to learn things that aren't in the book and aren't in the assignments. Because she didn't go to school, she has no idea that she's "wasting her time" or potentially making the other students look bad, and all those other kinds of things. She said today she's glad that teachers are starting to call on her in class!

Jihong: And he loves watching our kids. He always says, gee, it is so beautiful to watch. They are beautiful (not just look :))

Sandra Dodd: Jihong, the next time he says what you're doing is working, maybe you could say "It could work better."
Sandra Dodd: And if he asks, say he's sabotaging it, and that it would also work better if he himself learned enough about it to be actively help you create that environment.

Jihong: Great!, Sandra. I will do that :)

Robin B.: One thing unschooled kids seem to have is enthusiasm!

ivalee: Love the idea of extra work because of enthusiasm and curiosity rather than a grade. I can relate to that.

Robin B.: Maybe Holly should do a new video and talk about her A+ college work!

Sandra Dodd: I don't know that she will get an A+. I don't know if she'll care. :-)

Robin B.: Not that the mean ignorant masses would stop, though.

Sandra Dodd: She's in it for the learning.

Robin B.: That's so cool.

Sandra Dodd: OH!! BOTH she's in a management class she plans to drop out of. She's still going, though. She can drop out any time before the third of four tests.

Jihong: Orion's piano teacher gave him a A+ sticker. He asked me what it meant (he learned F was failed from a TV show)

ivalee: Yes, the learning aspect.

Sandra Dodd: She doesn't like the teacher, but she has a partner in a project. She doesn't want to abandon her partner. And she wants to do the project so she can have practice completing a project like that. THEN she's going to drop out of the class, in a few weeks.

Sandra Dodd: See how much she doesn't really know how to go to school!?
Sandra Dodd: :-)

Robin B.: She's just way too responsible.

Sandra Dodd: And think about what Keith and I did to "make her responsible".

Robin B.: If only more people could not really know how to go to school!
Robin B.: Jihong, how do you feel about that A+ sticker?

Alex Polikowsky: Going to just read the chat on my phone.

Sandra Dodd: One of my favorite moments of my life as a parent was at the jr. police academy dinner/graduation, when one of the officers stood up to talk to me, all nervous and excited because I was Marty's mom, and said (after bragging Marty up) He said "You can always tell a kid who comes from a family with a lot of discipline, and rules.."

Alex Polikowsky left the chat

Robin B.: Snort!

Laura Z: I remember that story.

Erica Jones: How did you respond, Sandra??

Sandra Dodd: Holly is "responsible" because she is thoughtful.
Sandra Dodd
Erica, this is cut and pasted from the time:
He said Marty was really well behaved and enthusiastic and cooperative. (I wish I had the exact quotes there; I wish I had VIDEOTAPE.)
I said "We hardly have any rules at our house. We just tell them to always make the best choice, to be helpful and not hurt people." (That's maybe 85% close to exact words; I need my audio back!)
He said they had talked about a lot of things like that over the week. I wanted to make light again, because it was maybe kinda tacky to counter "you can always tell" with "GOTCHA! Wrong! CAN'T always tell." So I said, "Y'know, Monday was really his first day at school of any sort. It was his first day taking notes or anything like that."
"Oh, right, he's homeschooled, right?"
"Yes."
"Most of the homeschooled kids I've met were not so good at social interactions. Marty's really confident and outgoing."
Sandra Dodd: And (writing now, end of chat) the Monday morning of the five-day intensive academy, Marty woke up afraid, and didn't want to go. He wasn't confident and outgoing. He was nearly in tears, and he was visibly stressed, and said he was afraid I would be mad if he didn't go, because I had bought the uniform (a cap, and a jr. police academy t-shirt with his name on it) , but he was afraid.
Sandra Dodd: So I said let's at least get ready. And when it was time he still didn't want to go and I said let's at least drive over there and watch the other kids go in. You don't have to go.
Sandra Dodd: And we got to the parking lot, way across town, and he still didn't want to go.
Sandra Dodd: And after a few of the other kids went in, and he saw some adults go into the building (it's the real police academy, and there were people who worked there between sessions and whatnot, and offices in there)... he softened and I knew he would be okay. And after a bit he said he would go in. And I said if you change your mind during the day, call me and I'll come and get you.
Sandra Dodd: So he wasn't "confident and outgoing," at first, either.

JennyC joined the chat

Sandra Dodd: When I was a kid, if it had been me the kid and my mom the me? I could tell you three or four ways that could have gone in the screaming-insult toilet.

Marta BP: How old was Marty at the time?

Sandra Dodd: Fourteen.
Sandra Dodd: Older than some of the other kids. The age window was 12-14. I wish we had known about it earlier!
Sandra Dodd: Turns out some of the kids who were there were the sons of police officers and they didn't even want to be there. Some were kids who had city government connections and had been pressed to go there by their parents. So Marty also got to have the distinction of wanting to be there.

Erica Jones: Did you go in with him or drop him off?

Sandra Dodd: He got the award for best marksman. They used paintball guns on the obstacle course (climb and shoot a target, run and shoot a targer, crawl and shoot a target, like that) and the real electronic simulator handguns that the police train with, that are the same weight and feel and kick of the handguns they use.

ColleenP (NH) joined the chat

Sandra Dodd: He got out of the car and went. I stayed in the parking lot until he was all the way in the door and had had time to find the room.
Sandra Dodd: Marty said other kids there had shot real guns before, some of them. He hadn't. He had played a lot of duck hunt on the Nintendo, and played with Nerf guns and water guns. That's all.

JennyC: The last time I went to the grocery store with Chamille, she was making faces, sort of without realizing that she was doing it. A woman came over and said something like, "ha, I busted you making faces behind your mom's back" or something like that and Chamille said something like, "no, no, no, I really wasn't", and she kind of turned to me apologetically.
JennyC: I've seen lots of teens do that to their parents in public.

Erica Jones: That was very brave of him, Sandra. :)
Erica Jones: I personally don't pursue some of my interests because going alone is out of my comfort zone.

Sandra Dodd: From the time he was 11 or 12 he thought he wanted to be a police officer when he grew up. I encouraged his interest. Keith didn't want me to encourage him. He wanted me to talk him out of it for being too dangerous and frustrating. I didn't want to talk him out of it. By the time he was 15, he had changed his mind, but for a few years it was a focus, and that was fine with me.

AlexPolikowsky: Daniel is a good shooter. Sometimes he hunts Pigeons in the barn. He has good aim but he rarely does go hunting. It must be video games helping.

JennyC: People make all kinds of weird assumptions about how teens will behave.

Sandra Dodd: Erica, I have been to a movie by myself five times in my life. Two were in the past two months, because I made a conscious decision to try to get over my problem.

JennyC: Margaux is a dead shot with any kind of point and shoot, archery, darts, bb guns.
JennyC: I would never play against her for money. ;)

Sandra Dodd: I can tell the movie and which theater, when I went alone, and it was traumatic. 3.5, because I stayed for a repeat (in the days when that was easy and common) of Jesus Christ Superstar, after my friends went back home.

Sylvia Woodman: I get very anxious when I have to drive to a new place. But I am working hard to get over it because I don't want to prevent my kids from going places. I try not to talk about it out loud either so they don't hear about my anxiety.

Erica Jones: I don't seem to have a problem going to the movies or a restaurant by myself, because I prefer my own company.

Sandra Dodd
But I saw Les Mis in December alone, and then Parental Guidance last month, by myself.
Both times, I took something with me for comfort. A little stuffed animal that was in the van the first time, and a handkerchief the second time.

JennyC: I used to love going on walks by myself
JennyC: but I haven't in so long, I'm not sure how I would feel about it.

Erica Jones: But places where conversation is a must or people expect something from me is a different story entirely. For example: I'm interested in a local hoop dance class & I cannot bring myself to go. Even though I'll be learning something that I'd really like to know.

Sylvia Woodman: You probably needed the handkercheif more for Le Mis.

Sandra Dodd: I can only go to a restaurant alone if I have a book or my iPad.

Robin B.: Erica, YouTube!

AlexPolikowsky: Dina Marconi's husband is a NYPD officer. He used to play video games for a living before that. He is one of the best shooters in his district. His mother also never let him play with guns as a kid.

Erica Jones: Oh I definitely have to take a book to a restaurant. ;)

Sandra Dodd: I would probably rather be hungry than go into a restaurant and sit at a table and wait for food without something to do or someone to talk to. I just got a shiver all the way up my spine to my skull just imagining it.

Robin B.: Sandra, me too. I have to have something to occupy me/keep me safe :-).

Erica Jones: In the days of the smart phone you always have something to do.

JennyC: Smart phones are good for that!

AlexPolikowsky: I have gone to restaurants by myself, tons of movies, weekend trips.

Sylvia Woodman: It's easier to eat alone at a restaurant if you can sit at a counter rather than a table.

Erica Jones: But I always carry a book with me. one because you never know when that awkward moment comes & two because I'm usually reading something I don't want to put down.

Sandra Dodd: Alex, weekend trip even if you're not being met by someone you know?

AlexPolikowsky: Yep

Sandra Dodd: Not me, Sylvia, not a counter. A corner booth. :-)

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Erica Jones: I prefer a corner booth too.

Sandra Dodd: So we still have personal growth we could do. :-)

Robin B.: :-)

ElaineGH left this message
I don't mind going to anonymous things alone, like restaurants, but social things like family parties, any party in fact, or pub to meet friends, or event I need someone with me.

Sylvia Woodman: Harry likes to sit at the counter because then he can chat with more than one server.

Sandra Dodd: When parents can look at their own limitations and think consciously not to pass those on (like Sylvia not muttering about finding a new place), that's progress too, I think!

Erica Jones: I think I would enjoy a weekend trip by myself. I enjoy food shopping, hot baths, reading & cooking. It might be nice.

Robin B.: Elaine, if you want to join in, click the Join Chat button at the bottom.

Sandra Dodd: You can post from outside if you want. :-)

AlexPolikowsky: Last time was in 2001 I went to the beach. Stayed at a hotel, went to restaurants and shops. All by myself. I rather go with someone but I needed and no one was available so I went.

Sandra Dodd: It gives you a cool border.

Robin B.: Either way!

Erica Jones: Elaine, I agree. Anonymous things are fine....classes, parties etc not so much.

Jill Parmer: I don't mind doing things alone, at all. That's my hermit quality. :-) It was a really weird feeling when I did want someone with me one time. I was in Paris by myself for about 10 days, I did stay with a family of an exchange student of ours, but I went exploring every day alone. I wanted someone with me one day on Champs de Elysee because there were so many interesting street performers, I wanted to say, 'wow, did you see that?'

Erica Jones: Robin B did you learn to hoop on youtube?

Sylvia Woodman: I did plenty of solo traveling when I was working in the 1990s! Enough to last a lifetime LOL! The idea of a solo trip sounds like hell to me now.

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Sandra Dodd: Marty's moving to our old house soon, and I'm happy for him. It's such a smooth transition, it seems, that we are able to help him by giving him inexpensive house payments, he's able to move into a house without needing to go and meet strangers and figure out all that's involved in getting utilities hooked up and paying the extra fees of initating a lease.

ElaineGH: Thanks Robin.

Robin B.: No, but I know folks who started with that. I dance hula. Not good to learn on YouTube <g>.

HeatherB: While I was in Vegas we met a guy who worked for Activision and talked about games and games our kids play. When someone said that their kid played Black Ops the guys said, "Oh my gosh! Aren't you worried?" I thought, "Wow. The idea is so pervasive that video games harm children that even this guy who makes them thinks so!" I felt really lucky in that moment that I had moved to California when I did and went to HSC when I did and met all the wonderful families that I have who don't feel that video games are harmful because playing them is such a passion of Austin's. I held him back from it for so many years.

Robin B.: That's great, Sandra. The previous tenant is gone with no problem?

Sylvia Woodman: My friend who has 5 kids just posted that for her birthday she is going to some island resort for 5 days alone. No husband, no kids. On the one hand she should get to celebrate her birthday any way she wants but it sounds so awful to me. One hour alone in the grocery store and I'm finding excuses to call home to hear my family's voices.

Robin B.: I think I remember your worries, Heather.

Sandra Dodd: Jill, the first time I went to a museum by myself, in London, it was painful. I wanted to share my excitement, or my curiosity.

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Sandra Dodd: Will be gone. He's been there for 12 years (will be 12 by summer). Paying $750 for a three-bedroom house with nice big yard, because he was Keith's squire.
Sandra Dodd: That's pretty cheap.
Sandra Dodd: He wasn't that great a squire. :-)
Sandra Dodd: We thought he would be there four or five years. He can do home repairs, and he did some, and remodeled the kitchen, and we paid for all the materials for whatever he wanted to fix up.

Robin B.: Sylvia, I've traveled alone. And while sometimes the idea seems good (I have hermit-like qualities, too), I feel disconnected and a bit sad.

AlexPolikowsky: I would not like that Sylvia.

HeatherB: I've shared my excitement in museums when I have been by myself. I got funny looks!

Sandra Dodd: So that's a benefit to us, though he hasn't made any improvements for years. He married and had a child since he moved there.

AlexPolikowsky: I love being with Brian and my kids.

ColleenP (NH): I've never traveled alone - I'm definitely too much of a "did you see that??" person to not have someone to say it to. :-)

Sandra Dodd: Sylvia, I wouldn't enjoy five days alone, either.
Sandra Dodd: And our tenant has been wanting to move to Ohio for years, but his wife stalls and balks. So this will do him a favor there, too.

AlexPolikowsky: I have traveled alone but I make friends wherever I go :)

Robin B.: I would like to be alone, surrounded by my family <g>. We all feel a bit like that. We're having some alone time, but in and out of each other's doings.

Sandra Dodd: She's from Missouri; not like he's taking a New Mexican to the midwest. :-)

Jill Parmer: Ha! Funny Heather.

Sandra Dodd: I like to be alone at the house when everyone else is gone overnight!

Sylvia Woodman: When the kids were really little I used to think wouldn't it be wonderful to sit at Boarders Bookstore (now closed) and drink a fancy coffee and read a magazine. So one day I did it - Jim watched the kids and I went. And it was terrible. The coffee tasted bitter and I felt so weird not to have a kid in my lap that I couldn't focus on the magazine. I came home after 25 minutes.

Erica Jones: I love to be home alone. Rarely happens but its a nice treat :) I stay up pretty late so I get my "me time" that way.

Sandra Dodd: Sylvia, some moms would say that was messed up, but I think it's very sweet.

Robin B.: Heather, I think I promised that Senna would get in touch with Austin about WoW. Then she didn't. I learned not to promise anything for anyone else.

Sandra Dodd: You'll have time someday.

AlexPolikowsky: When I was growing up I used to complain that my mom talked to strangers wherever she went. Now I do the same :)

Robin B.: Sylvia, I know what you mean!!

Sandra Dodd: I keep thinking of things Marty can have to take with him, if he wants, when he moves. His girlfriend has some things from when she lived in an apartment for a few years.
Sandra Dodd: Her stuff is in storage.

Jill Parmer: Personal Growth. Addi really likes being with people always, does not like to be alone. I've needed to put my hermit-ness on the back burner for years, so that I could be a better parent to her, especially.

Sandra Dodd: And she said "but I don't have a microwave," because she gave hers to Holly and Holly took it to Corvallis and left it with Diana and Hayden.

HeatherB: Robin, he's not playing WoW anymore. He tried it, but he doesn't 
like MMO's. He's totally into Skyrim right now bc a new DLC came out.

Sandra Dodd: But I did point out that Marty works at Target, and gets a discount. :-)

JennyC: Oh Robin, I've made that mistake too!

Robin B.: I haven't grown personally much in that regard, then. I have a house full of introverts. But I'm the most social of all of them.

Erica Jones: Gosh I love Target.

AlexPolikowsky: Yep Sylvia now that my kids are older and sometimes do not want to go run errands with me I miss them and come running home.

Robin B.: Senna likes Skyrim, but I won't promise anything on her behalf.
Robin B.: :-)

Sandra Dodd: I like Target, too.
Sandra Dodd: Marty works at a job one step up (or over) from where he started. He used to help unload the 4:00 a.m. truck, and put things on the shelves.

Robin B.: You know, I can move back to Canada now that Target is expanding there! And Nordstrom :-)

Marta BP: Me too Robin! House full of introverts and I'm the most social one of all. ;)

Sandra Dodd: Now he's the guy who puts the labels on the shelves so the other guys know where to put stuff.

trista: Jill, YES! Brooklyn told me that she doesn't like it when I'm not in the same room, and prefers to be right up next to me...which has been a growing experience for me, who enjoys a bubble of space around me. :)

Sandra Dodd: And when the displays are changed, he sets everything up, re-configuring shelves. He said it's like a giant Lego set. So all that Lego play was preparation for this job.

AlexPolikowsky: Me and Gigi are the social ones here.

Robin B.: I'll wait until Trader Joe's goes there.

JennyC: We are going to move into a home with 2 separate living spaces. Chamille wants her own space but she wants to continue living with us and then once she really moves out, we'll be able to let someone else stay there. That's our solution.

Sandra Dodd: They give him a store map, and diagrams, and he builds it

Robin B.: That's cool, Sandra, connecting it to Lego.

Sandra Dodd: He worked two days last week helping set up a brand new store.

JennyC: That's awesome!

Robin B.: Have you found a place, Jenny?

JennyC: It takes a special kind of skill to see a store that size in big picture!

ColleenP (NH): I'm the most introverted in my house - I'm glad my son has a balance between my husband I as he always has someone willing to go places with him and someone willing to stay home with him - though we often all go out or all stay home, if someone doesn't want to, it still works. :)

JennyC: Not yet, still looking.

Sandra Dodd: Sounds like a good solution, Jenny.

Sylvia Woodman: Gabriella keeps telling me that she plans to buy one of the other houses on our block so she can come over every day. I am totally fine with this plan. Harry tells me he's not planning to move out at all.

JennyC: Baby steps... first thing, need a second working car, THEN move to another home.

Robin B.: You need a Hawaiian type home. A main house and an 'ohana unit!

JennyC: Yes! Exactly.

ColleenP (NH): Robbie says he's going to live next door, or somewhere on our road, or at least in our town. I like that!

HeatherB: I was hired to set up the lingere section at Kmart when I was 16. I was fired bc I moved to slow. I remember feeling really bad about myself, bc I really was working as fast as i could, but there were so many skinny, strappy things to put on these tiny hangers.

Robin B.: Or a carriage house, like they have in New Orleans.

Sandra Dodd: Roya Sorooshian (now Dedeaux) moved one street over from her mom for a few years. Now she and her husband are going to get to live in a park-owned house in griffith park.

Robin B.: I know they have them elsewhere, but I saw a lot of carriage houses there.

JennyC: I'm excited about it on so many levels because space would be good and the biggest issue we have, the most stressful, has to do with kitchen clean up. Having 2 separate living spaces eliminates that stress entirely!

Robin B.: Ooh, nice for Roya.

JennyC: Oh, that's awesome!

HeatherB: Ok, I am going to head out and play some Dragonborn with Austin. Thanks for the chat y'all! See you next week!

Robin B.: Bye Heather!
Robin B.: Tell Austin sorry for the mom-fail.

ColleenP (NH): New england has a lot of carriage houses on older estates - when I first moved out and was looking for an apartment, I looked at several that were for rent. Some really pretty places, they were.

Sandra Dodd: So other than clarity and patience and more awareness of the richness of the world, what else helps with personal growth?

JennyC: Recognizing where I have hangups!

Sandra Dodd: I didn't make a collection when people were first writing.

ColleenP (NH): Kindness to one's self, I think helps - recognizing that personal growth can come in spurts, stop for a while, start again...

JennyC: That really has been the biggest thing for me, is seeing where I have issues and then working to get over them!

Sandra Dodd: Courage, somehow, is in there. Confidence that comes from having successfully survived a few changes.

Marta BP: Oh wow, where to start? ;)

Sandra Dodd: I like that, Colleen.

Marta BP: Yes, Sandra, indeed. Courage and confidence.

Sylvia Woodman: I have this mental image of taking a big breath and taking the first step.

Sandra Dodd: A change of direction?

JennyC: I used to *feel* my kids feelings. That was never useful for helping them handle them.
JennyC: Finding ways to separate myself from their big feelings helped me better help them.

Sandra Dodd: Stability and detachment? Being the partner who's not flipping out?

Marta BP: Emotionally I feel more mature. I don't take things personally anymore, well not as much as used to. And when I do, I can see that it probably has more to do with being tired or hungry, etc.

JennyC: Yes.

Robin B.: I had to learn that, too, Jenny. And it's difficult when you're wired the same way.

Sylvia Woodman: Can you say more about this Jenny? This is something I'm trying to deal with every day.

Robin B.: Being the rock.

JennyC: My younger daughter gets upset easily and often. It's easy for me to feel upset and frustrated by her upset-ness. When I can be happy and calm and peaceful, I'm much more able to help her.

trista: Yes, also dealing with this, and trying to communicate how to deal with it with my husband.

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JennyC: And it's HARD sometimes!
JennyC: And taking that deep breath and turning, sometimes physically, the other direction helps a lot.

ElaineGH: I have to go now.
ElaineGH: bye//

JennyC: Bye Elaine.
JennyC: That's Margaux's middle name.

Marta BP: Kindness to one's self -- Yes Colleen!

JennyC: Margaux Elaine.

Jill Parmer: <<<Sandra Dodd: So other than clarity and patience and more awareness of the richness of the world, what else helps with personal growth?>>> Willingness to really look at yourself, willingness to consider you might be wrong.

Erica Jones: I don't think personal growth ever stops. I don't think you ever "make it". Its a journey everyday. Daily decisions.

Sandra Dodd: Elaine the other way / and then bye,

JennyC: Oh that's a big one Jill, willingness to consider I might be wrong!

Sandra Dodd: Assuming it starts, you mean, Erica. :-)

Robin B.: Yeah, Jill.

JennyC: I LIKE to be right gosh darn it!

Sandra Dodd: I think Jill's point is right. If someone thinks she's all done, as good as she'll ever be, growth isn't likely.

JennyC: Once I experienced being right and feeling just awful that I was right, that's when it changed the way I felt about being right. Sometimes being right stinks!

Erica Jones: Surely everyone desires to grow/learn/change.

Sandra Dodd: The decisions (many more than daily) get easier as you have made them for many, many years, I can say pretty confidently, being 59
Sandra Dodd: Oh no way! Many people do NOT want to grow/learn/change.

Robin B.: Being right can come at the expense of being kind.
Robin B.: Erica, that hasn't been my experience at all.

Erica Jones: In different ways yes. We can't expect everyone to take the same journey. (even if I would like them to take mine)

Sandra Dodd: Some think they've graduated from college, that's it. Or they're rich, that's enough. Or they're married now, they don't need to try anymore.

Erica Jones: Really? I'm honestly surprised. That sounds sad.

Robin B.: It is sad.

JennyC: Keep reading on unschooling groups and you'll see that there are some people that really don't want to change or grow

Robin B.: Or it can be, I guess.

Sandra Dodd: Sometimes their church accepts them and so they figure all they need to do is go along peaceably, follow the church schedule, show up and be helpful, and they're good for life.
Sandra Dodd: Personal question, Erica, but are you younger than 30?

Erica Jones: Yes, I'm 23.

Sandra Dodd: There it is.

Erica Jones: What?

Sandra Dodd: Print out, or write down, that I say when you're 30 you will see the world much differently.

Robin B.: Sweet idealism now. Not that that isn't a good thing!

Sandra Dodd: Only someone younger than 30 could be honestly surprised that there are millions of people who have zero interest in personal growth. :-)

Robin B.: :-) I would have thought that, also, at 23.
Robin B.: OMG it's so long ago!

JennyC: It's true that there are loads of people that simply forget after 30, they stop growing and changing and expanding ideas, they forget what it's like to be young. Most unschooling parents aren't like that though, good news for you if you continue learning more about unschooling!

Capn Franko: I was a bitter cynic by my mid-teens. But that's just me.

Sandra Dodd: Cynicism is poison.
Sandra Dodd: Embittering!

Capn Franko: Yes it is.

Sandra Dodd: Polluting.
Sandra Dodd: Yet people take pride in it.

Robin B.: We will love you into non-cynicism, Frank.

Sylvia Woodman: I posted something tongue in cheek about Learn Nothing Day last year or the year before and someone commented "That's everyday at my house!" Like he was proud of it!

Capn Franko: It's survival in a hostile, poisonous atmosphere.
Capn Franko: I'm getting there, Robin.

JennyC: My extended family tends in that direction... cynical.

Robin B.: But look at the sweet family you have. That's got to help.

Capn Franko: Yes. I've healed significantly in the last few decades.

Sandra Dodd: I just lately told a friend I've known since 1977 that he was being too negative and I was going to unfriend him on facebook if he kept on. That I didn't mind not being facebook friends, but I did mind seeing his continuing negativity.

JennyC: It took me a lot to stop that immediate cynical reaction to things.

Sandra Dodd: We've had several mutual friends kill themselves, and he knew, at the time that the disdainful, mocking environment they socialized in was a factor. He said so. He cleaned up his emotional act for a while, each time.

Robin B.: I've hid people on FB for that, Sandra. I might still want to be friends, but I don't want to get tangled up in their negativity.

Marta BP: Me too Robin, I've been doing that.

Sandra Dodd: Oh yikes, Sylvia. Well... hell of a thing to be proud of.

Robin B.: Cynical pride.

Sandra Dodd: Something happens to people when they turn 30, whether or not they've had kids. I think it's just as real a turning point as puberty or menopause, but it doesn't take as long and doesn't show physically.

JennyC: I need to go! I'm glad I got to jump in there in the last hour! I'll see you all in other spheres of the interwebs!

Robin B.: Me, too. Thanks, all!

Marta BP: This has also been a really big one for me -- being able to be more positive. And it was easier than I thought; I started choosing not to be tangled in negative thoughts, images, etc.

Sandra Dodd: In the SCA I've had several students and helped with squires of my husband or my friend Jeff, and had a few dozen others in philosophy discussion series' I've run.

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Sandra Dodd: And I became increasingly sure that I was seeing a plateau, a change in understanding. I thought it was a range of years, but I've never seen it earlier than 30.
Sandra Dodd: It's like women needing glasses when they turn 40. If no other glasses are worn, reading glasses will be needed, if ever, at 40, for women. LOTS of women. "Are you 40?" the doctor said to me when I said I thought I might need glasses. I was. I've seen it over and over.
Sandra Dodd: But for philosophy to become real, 30.
Sandra Dodd: I like this, Marta: "being able to be more positive. And it was easier than I thought"

Sylvia Woodman: That's so interesting! I've recently started wearing reading glasses. (I'll be 44 in May)

Capn Franko: I gotta get some lunch and a nap. (Got the flu. Ick.) See y'all later.

Sylvia Woodman: Feel better Frank!

Sandra Dodd: Hope you feel better soon, Frank

Marta BP: Get well soon Frank! Bye!

Sandra Dodd: Thank you all for coming here! Erica, I hope you're not offended.

Erica Jones: I'm not offended.
Erica Jones: I don't really know what to say. So I won't say anything. But I will be thinking about it.

Sylvia Woodman: You know I studied Philosophy in College but I'm a much better thinker now... must be the age.

Sandra Dodd: I knew someone who was pissed off because she wanted to be my student and I said I had decided not to have any students younger than 30 (which I had). She was quite irritable about it, and a few years later we were at a feast in El Paso or somewhere south, and she asked if we could talk. She was apologizing for some particular things she had said and done years before, and somewhere in there I asked how old she was now. She looked embarrassed, and then blushed, and then looked defeated, and guess how old? :-)

Sylvia Woodman: :-)

Sandra Dodd: I did not offer to take her as a student. We corresponded a bit after that, and she assured me that modesty wasn't something that applied to her.

Laura Z: Feel better Frank.

Sandra Dodd: At least she had one good apologetic session of self-awareness before she hardened and told me there was nothing she could learn from others.
Sandra Dodd: Humility. That's what she said didn't apply. She said she never learned from other people, only from her own thoughts.
Sandra Dodd: That's some jackoff there. She's moved 1800 miles from me, which is good.

Erica Jones: Is this only applicable to women? Or men as well?

Sandra Dodd: And she's moved where lack of humility doesn't show, and cynicism is rewarded.
Sandra Dodd: Men and women same, as far as I can tell. Most of my students were male.
Sandra Dodd: Some women harden (emotionally) in a way I'm uncomfortable describing.
Sandra Dodd: But those who do keep their thoughts and curiosity flowing do well.
Sandra Dodd: Not everyone is wiser or more analytical at 30, but few to none before then, is what I'm trying to say.

Erica Jones: I don't spend very much time thinking about the distant future but I'm interested to see how things will turn out for me & my husband. (He will be 28 this month)

Sandra Dodd: I've been with Keith since he was 21 and I was 24.
Sandra Dodd: Those are the ages of our youngest children now. :-)

Marta BP: That's one of the things I've found since reading about unschooling. Even though I've told people that I've grown so much with it and by reading and thinking a lot, they don't seem to think it's really necessary. All the reading and thinking...

Sandra Dodd: It's an interesting window for us, to see them making life decisions, and remember we were not only making those kinds of decisions, we got a few years later.
Sandra Dodd: We were together six years before we married.
Sandra Dodd: Well, Marta, will it be on a test?
Sandra Dodd: Will you get a certificate or a degree?

Marta BP: Hehehe ;)

Sandra Dodd: It's not "necessary."

Marta BP: Yes, I see what you mean.

Erica Jones: Thank you for the chat. I have to go. The little man is asking to build "dream castles."

Sandra Dodd: Holly's friend Missy, who's from Mexico, is the girlfriend of the drummer of the group in which will is the guitarist. He and Will have been best friends since they were 13 or so.
Sandra Dodd: Bye, Erica!

ivalee: I've been away playing slides and jumping on the bed. Sandra can I save the chat any other way than page by page?

Marta BP: Just the other day, a friend of mine, who's interested in unschooling, was telling me things weren't so good with her marriage.

Sandra Dodd: And Missy is studying Portuguese at the university, so I'm going to send Holly the link to the page of your translations, Marta. That will probably be Missy's first glimpse into how Holly grew up, with unschooling.
Sandra Dodd: Ivalee, click on "save/print" on the left.

Marta BP: I gave her some links to your site and recommended the Unschooling Partnerships list and she said she couldn't handle thinking and reading about it right now.
Marta BP: Great, Sandra! (about Holly's friend)

Sandra Dodd: And replace the number at the top with the number before (if it says 6/6, change the first 6 to 5 so it's 5/6
Sandra Dodd: and then cut them into an e-mail, or a word file.

Jill Parmer: Need to get going, thanks all.
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Sandra Dodd: Each day's chat is usually just two of those pages.

Laura Z: Sandra, I know you hear it all the time, but really...thank you for all the time you give of yourself so others can benefit.

Marta BP: What Laura said! :) Yes, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Laura Z: The FB stuff has been so incredibly icky towards not just you but so many of the other people who take time to post over there

ivalee: Thanks, I look forward to catching up.

Sandra Dodd: Schuyler won't let her onto Unschooling Partnerships anyway if she's not already in a well-established unschooling family.
Sandra Dodd: Thanks, Laura. :-)

Marta BP: Oh, ok.

Sandra Dodd: People get like wounded animals sometimes. Dangerous and stinky
Sandra Dodd: But I have no interest in animal control.
Sandra Dodd: I only want to help real humans with enough maturity and self-possession to be receptive enough to try to get it.

ColleenP (NH): It's interesting how offended people get about "tone" on Facebook - when there is no tone on facebook - only the tone of how one sounds in one's own head!!
ColleenP (NH): So if one is hearing unpleasant voice in one's head, that might be one's own thing to look at, rather than blaming the writer :)

Marta BP: Indeed, Colleen! ;)

Sandra Dodd: Maybe, Colleen. They assume my tone is hostile when it's not, but I can certainly see some tone in what they're writing.

Laura Z: Yes Colleen, I think people see it as an extension of a regular conversation, without the facial and body language but the ability to say whatever they want behind the safety of their screen. Used to be that email was like that.

Marta BP: You've got a point there, Sandra.

ColleenP (NH): I can see words that are harsh and defensive in what some people write - after they accuse someone else who writes very simply/plainly/directly of having tone... so interesting.
ColleenP (NH): I hope those people are kinder to their kids than they are to people who are trying to help them - that's what I keep thinking.

Sandra Dodd
This was in my "other" folder yesterday:
I just wanted to let you know that Tara Vogler and her kids are pretty awesome and your clear intent to bully her is not only pathetic it's a direct reflection on YOUR character. Tara is one of the most hands-on parents I know that has strong convictions and even stronger morals BUT remains judge free and open minded to others. I hope you treat your children with a little more empathy and consideration than you do the members of your page. Quote that on your page, bitch.
Sandra Dodd: A name I'd never heard of, and a yellow smiley face at the bottom.

Marta BP: :(

ColleenP (NH): Wow - unreal. Unpleasant. Not ok.

Marta BP: Definitely not ok.

Laura Z: Geez... sounds like they have their own problems.

Sandra Dodd: Never in a hundred years would she come up to me and say that in person.
Sandra Dodd: But what I said to Tara, I would have said in person. It wouldn't have sounded hostile or mean.
Sandra Dodd: People who haven't seen or heard me imagine me scary and mean, but I'm not.
Sandra Dodd: Oh, Colleen.... NH, on that one, I think.

Laura Z: Sandra do you have link to Schuyler's group?

Sandra Dodd: No, Pennsylvania.
Sandra Dodd: Sorry. Someone in this recent tussel is in NH.
Sandra Dodd: Laura, yes, for you?

Laura Z: Yes please.

ColleenP (NH): Ah gosh then I very hope that it's no one I will ever meet here in NH!!

Sandra Dodd: She won't let new unschoolers on.

Laura Z: No, it's def for me.
Laura Z: It's sad but there are people like that all over in unschooling. I met some like that in Florida in my group there.

ColleenP (NH): The person who wrote the nasty message is from NH? (I hope not)

Marta BP: If people listen to your talks or see your videos, they can't possibly imagine you like that. I know. ;)

Sandra Dodd: It's on this page, if you lose it, Laura: http://sandradodd.com/divorce

Marta BP: Sometimes I hear you singing a song in one of your talks and it's so soothing. :)

Sandra Dodd: Thanks, Marta. :-)

Laura Z: Thank you.

Sandra Dodd: I wish I had recorded myself singing more when I had a young woman's voice.

Marta BP: It's a wonderful group, Laura! :)

ColleenP (NH): I have to go - we're off to get Hotel Transylvania from Red Box so we can have a movie-evening. :)

Laura Z: Is it very active though? When I go to the join page there are very few posts.

Sandra Dodd: Bye! I'm going too.

Laura Z: Oh Colleen enjoy...we are going to see that soon too!

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Sandra Dodd: Write something, Laura. There are lots of people in there.

Marta BP: No, not very active. ;) But a lot of great posts in the archives, for sure!

Laura Z: Still a bit chicken to write much. It's coming slowly though.

Marta BP: Well, not as active as Always Learning. ;)

Laura Z: hehehe Yes nothing is as active as AL!
Laura Z: Well Stephane will be home soon... Gotta run and get dinner ready poor guys is doing tons of overtime and goes to bed at 7 pm.

Sandra Dodd left the chat

Laura Z: Bye all /bye

Marta BP: Me too.

Laura Z left the chat 

Marta BP: Bye!

ivalee: Chat saved and ready for me to read later. :) Thanks everyone for sharing.
ivalee: Off to jump on the bed some more.
ivalee left the chat 



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