January 28, 2016
FUN food, food problems, odd preferences, worries, surprises.
Let's talk about what resources are helpful to unschooling, and what's different, with unschooling. I'm helping with a six-year-old who goes to school these days. I'm learning some new little-kid preferences myself, and some scheduling realities.
There are two chat transcripts from 2009, about food. Here's a quote from one:
mindyh: I just read the most facinating article about food and sex. The author was saying that the old morality concerning sex has transferrred to a new morality about food.
What do unschooling principles have to do with food, though? How does food affect the family relationships, togetherness, and happiness?
mindyh: I just read the most facinating article about food and sex. The author was saying that the old morality concerning sex has transferrred to a new morality about food.
What do unschooling principles have to do with food, though? How does food affect the family relationships, togetherness, and happiness?
THIS WILL BE EDITED SLIGHTLY AFTER PUBLICATION HERE. Maybe.
Sandra Dodd joined the chat 13 days ago
Marta Venturini: Hello ladies
Sandra Dodd: Pam Laricchia interviewed me for her podcast this morning.
Sandra Dodd: Long unschooling-words day. :-)
Sandra Dodd: But fun.
Marta Venturini: Yay!
Sylvia Woodman joined the chat 13 days ago
Sylvia Woodman: Hello!!
Marta Venturini: Can't wait for it to be available!
Marta Venturini: Hi Sylvia
Sandra Dodd: Hello, Sylvia!
Sylvia Woodman: I'm listening to the one that Pam did. I'm not finished because it is long!
Marta Venturini: Pam's is so good, Alex.
AlexP: I heard Pam's Really liked the math part
Serah: Hello,eveyone!! oooh yay, another podcast ;-)
Sandra Dodd: I enjoyed Pam's because I could picture the people and places, and when she talked about the first park group they were in, I thought Rainbow Kids! Our family went twice, with them (or maybe I went once, and my whole family another time).
[after some play-argument about what color names should be:]
Sylvia Woodman: That would be cool. There used to be more options.
AlexP: Sure! We are just joking! i WILL LET Sylvia use black ! ;)
Sylvia Woodman: You are too kind! :D
AlexP: I know!
AlexP: and humble!
AlexP: By the way I had read it once but I love the story you llinked yesterday Sandra about humility and being humble
Sylvia Woodman: It's interesting that the color of the name is important to Marta. I see name shapes. So I can't see how Sylvia and Alex can be confused because the shape is so different.
Sandra Dodd: So, Ana—usually we wait for ten people before beginning the serious topic.
Sandra Dodd: Today I want to talk about food in happy ways. There's a description at the top of the chatroom. That will disappear when the page gets too long.
Sylvia Woodman: OK is Navy blue ok?
Sandra Dodd: It's beautiful.
Sandra Dodd: We've used five different chat rooms over the years.
AlexP: I almost switched to Navy! That would have been funny!
Sylvia Woodman: More than 8 I think.
Sandra Dodd: One of them put up the flag of the country the person was in. That was pretty.
Sandra Dodd: But one by one, they go away.
Marta Venturini: That was cool. The flags.
Sandra Dodd: This isn't the most elegant but at least we can have our names in color. :-)
Sylvia Woodman: Honestly Alex you are my twin!
AlexP: I know right!
Sylvia Woodman: (You know my brother's name is Alex so my whole childhood was "Sylvia & Alex!" "Alex & Sylvia!"
AlexP: i KNOW!
AlexP: My dad is Alex too and it is his birthday today!
Sylvia Woodman: Oh! Happy birthday to your Dad!
Sandra Dodd: In the SCA, we had a dignified, serious friend we had known for years, named Olaf. He became a Duke in the club, so Duke Olaf. Nice man. I knew his real name on the side, because I needed to write to him sometimes, when we were officers, when he was king. Martin Emmons, Colorado Springs.
Sandra Dodd: Then we had Marty. Named him after another Marty whose SCA name was Sigmund Traeskaeg. That Marty had died, in Alaska.
Sandra Dodd: TURNS OUT that Duke Olaf was called "Marty" when he was little, so when we would be at campouts or feasts and he would hear me say "Marty," he would jump and look with a little-boy face I had never seen on him in the many years I'd known him.
Sandra Dodd: I was triggering his childhood reactions. :-)
AlexP: Sweet!
Marta Venturini: Hehehehe
Sylvia Woodman: That's a cool story!
Sylvia Woodman: When my parents were first married they were living in NYC and had a circle of friends who were all engaged and newly married. They had friends who were pregnant at the same time as my Mom and they were discussing names.
AlexP: My grandmother, my dad's mom, always switched my dad and his brother's name.If she called Alex she meant Joao and vice versa. It must be genetic because I switch my kids name all the time.
Sylvia Woodman: My Mom said that if it was a boy they were going to use Alexander and her friend said, oh! what a great name if we have a boy would you mind if we used it too?
Sylvia Woodman: And my mom said Sure! It's not like they are going to live next door to each other.
AlexP: Daniel is called Gibuzz a lot!
Sandra Dodd: Then what, Sylvia?
Sylvia Woodman: Well you know ow this is going to end. They all ended up moving to the same suburb a few blocks away from each other and my brother Alex P (My brother) and Alex R my mom's friend's son ended up in the same class, seated next to each other in kindergarten. They remain friends to this day. I just saw Alex R at my brother's wedding a couple of years ago.
Sandra Dodd: Waiting for the story! (Marty's full name is Martin Alexander Dodd.)
Sandra Dodd: Oh! I gave up waiting too soon. :-)
Sylvia Woodman: :)
Sandra Dodd: So food! :-)
Sandra Dodd: So food! :-)
AlexP: See and now there is me! Alex P. My dad is Alexandre and if I had another boy it would have been Charles Alexander ( Charle
AlexP: oops Charles is Brian' middle name
Sandra Dodd: Is Alex short for a longer version, Alex?
AlexP: Alexandra
Sylvia Woodman: I love that name!
Sandra Dodd: In Portuguese is it pronounced as h or ch (the x)?
AlexP: Like Shan
Sandra Dodd: I had a high school friend named "Alejandro" (Spanish spelling) and his nickname was Jerry. ...
Sandra Dodd: The nickname didn't follow, because the j is pronounced H
AlexP: I had many nicknames Ale Le Leu Aleu Lili Alexia
AlexP: Here Alex
Sandra Dodd: Fooood....
Marta Venturini: Your nicknames are awesome. ;)
Sandra Dodd: Here was my problem when my kids were little.
AlexP: Food!
Sandra Dodd: I never wanted to "make" a child eat something, nor even taste it if he really didn't want to.
Sandra Dodd: I used to say "Just taste it, and if you dont like it you can spit it out in my hand." But if they said no, I didn't argue.
Sandra Dodd: My problem, then, was medicine, for a kid who was honestly really sick. That I needed to sneak, or bribe, or press, ad that was hard.
Sandra Dodd: Other than that, everything was smooth and easy for us, with food.
Sandra Dodd: Preferences and aversions came and went and we worked around them.
Sandra Dodd: What went well for you, or is going well for you, with kids and food?
AlexP: I am the same way Sandra. Luckly Daniel takes medicine super well and always did. Gigi in the other hand....
Sandra Dodd: I think unschooling made it VERY easy, because they could nearly always get a snack when they were hungry, and it wasn't a problem if they skipped eating when others ate.
Marta Venturini: Parvine has guests with her, so she asked me to post something on her behalf.
Sandra Dodd: School schedules change that. A kid in school who's hungry between meals is just out of luck, pretty much.
Marta Venturini: -=-Food almost always appears to be a sensitive subject and people hold on tight to their “ beliefs” on the topic. I feel there are food camps all over the place depending on what is ok or not ok to eat, or even allowed in the house (e.g. wheat free, paleo, organic only etc) and people appear to have become "religious” towards the topic of food, something I do not remember growing up. I grew up with a mother who served an array of foods, appreciated variety and ate joyfully! What I did learn with my own kids is that they did not necessarily like what I liked something that was taken for granted as I was growing up. I think understanding that was one of the biggest differences between my food experience and my kids. Through Unschooling I learnt to become far more aware of their likes and dislikes from an early age and that did not mean they were “fussy”!-=-
AlexP: I am a little stuck on food with my son. He rarely eats any meals and is snacking most of the time I think the issue is mine. Thinking he needs more food as he is tall and very slim.
Marta Venturini: Same here, Alex. Conchinha does not like to take medicine. Luckily she hasn't been sick much.
Sandra Dodd: If he was tall and slim and deprived, orphaned, living homeless, THEN worry. You have a fridge full of food next to a pantry. :-)
AlexP: I backed off bringing him food as he wont eat unless he asks for it now.
Sandra Dodd: Marta, that top part is not happy stories of food. :-)
AlexP: Yes I am making sure he has lots of snacks he will eat plus chocolate milk and Naked fruit smoothies
Sandra Dodd: I like it and will save it for later, but the last part of Parvine's note, about "fussy" is like learning not to label.
Sandra Dodd: Kids are insulted for being "picky" or "fussy."
AlexP: It is me that needed more deschooling.
Sandra Dodd: But really, aren't those healthy things to be?
Marta Venturini: I see what you mean, Sandra.
Sandra Dodd: Without that, won't people eat things they don't want, or need, or that have mold on them, or don't smell right? When it's about inserting anything into one's body "picky and fussy" seem to be good and safe.
AlexP: I don't call my kids picky or fussy. i really dislike calling a child that. Tastes change a lot!
Sandra Dodd: In some cases, I think when a family demands that a child eat it because the adult SAID to, that's skating dangerously close to setting them up for abuse.
Sylvia Woodman: Harry would be called a picky eater. One thing that has been super helpful to me was that notion that no "he doesn't appreciate X yet"
Sandra Dodd: It doesn't matter WHAT you want, or how wrong it seems, if an adult says open up, you open up. Eeyew. Dangerous.
Sylvia Woodman: But we would never call him that.
Sylvia Woodman: When he was very young he at a LOT of chocolate. It was quick, easy, sweet, always the same.
Marta Venturini: Yes, Sylvia. Yet. I didn't like things as a child that I love today!
catiamaciel: Boa Noite/ Good nigth, i'm cátia, from Portugal, mother of Sebastião (Tatão) 6 years old and Alma (Aya) 14 months :) i have a very long list of food restrictions but my children can eat what they feel like, from what is available around them. We decide not to put them on a organic and "perfect diet" after my readings on Always Learning. My son likes eats everything and is very healthy. We are happy with our decisions around food.
catiamaciel: Boa Noite/ Good nigth, i'm cátia, from Portugal, mother of Sebastião (Tatão) 6 years old and Alma (Aya) 14 months :) i have a very long list of food restrictions but my children can eat what they feel like, from what is available around them. We decide not to put them on a organic and "perfect diet" after my readings on Always Learning. My son likes eats everything and is very healthy. We are happy with our decisions around food.
Sandra Dodd: I hope things continue to go with with you on that, Cátia.
Sylvia Woodman: (Like I'm waiting for Gabriella to discover Sushi - it is so many of the things that she loves but she is still very anti fish)
AlexP: I totally agree with that. Food should never be force anyways! If animals are force fed it creates food aversions and several issues. Why do people make their kids eat stuff they dont like or want?
Sandra Dodd: Jihong wanted me to send some tootsie roll to them. I could only find a big bag. I tasted one, and didn't want another bite. But I loved it when I was little.
Sandra Dodd: So I took out a good set I was wiling to pay to mail to France, and sent the rest with Holly to abandon at a place where she goes to meetings, and lots of people come through and some need to wait a while. It will disappear there. :-)
Sylvia Woodman: Oh but getting back to Harry. I suspect (but I never had this confirmed) that he had some allergies or intolerances when he was young and that is why he never wanted to try new things. I think he was sticking with what he knew wouldn't make him feel bad.
Sandra Dodd: Keith used to take extra candy to work and leave it in the break room, but he's retired now.
AlexP: I dont like candy now as an adult and I now love dried frutis and crystalized fruit and raisins that I really disliked as a child
Sandra Dodd: This was the first time I realized that we've had conduits for candy dispersal. :-)
Sandra Dodd: Very often, adults can forget, and be judgmental of what young children want.
AlexP: I took a huge container to our caounty fair and the kids around went crazy. My kids would not touch it.
Sylvia Woodman: There was a time when the kids were REALLY into lollipops and we bought a big bad at BJ's and they spent an hour tasting them. unwrapping them exclaiming over the colors. Taking a lick or two and then putting them down on a plate.
AlexP: Gigi likes veggie sushi Sylvia. Try that first!
Sandra Dodd: I had a situation with Devyn (Kirby's child, kind of—his fiancee's daughter). She was staying here for a week, and we went to get food. She wanted baloney and white bread, and American cheese. I could have objected or refused, but I just bought it, and let her make her own sandwiches with my help, and didn't complain about any of it.
catiamaciel: thst is a good idea Sandra, i will give my husband the bag of marshmallow we got for new year. maybe someone will eat it at is work. Sebastião wanted to try it but did not like it.
Sandra Dodd: She had a rough few years, until she was nearly five, poor, rural, jerked around by relatives to one house and another, living crowded, not great care.
Sylvia Woodman: So that helped me understand that OK Harry will try new things. New candy. Can I build from there? OK he likes Pancakes. Will he try crepes? How about waffles made with the same batter as pancakes? Will he try a pancake made from potatoes?
AlexP: I used to like white bread, bologna and american cheese as a kid too. Now? Unless i was starving I would not eat it
Sandra Dodd: So if cheap non-ideal American food is comfort food for her, my refusal or criticism would be worse for her overall health than a baloney sandwich.
AlexP: Absolutely! Gigi eats a ton
AlexP: a TON O
Sandra Dodd: Don't you have a religious obligation to give people pancakes made from potatoes, Sylvia? An cultural imperative? :-)
Sylvia Woodman: Totally!
Sylvia Woodman: :)
AlexP: aRGH~ ! A ton of ramyun ( the korean ramen noodles) It is comforting and she likes it. She also will devour lots of fruit! It is all good
Sandra Dodd: I went a year or so with my default sandwich being white bread, miracle whip, sliced tomatoes.
Sandra Dodd: That was it.
Sandra Dodd: Day after day, I took that to school for lunch.
Sylvia Woodman: But now Harry is happy to eat potato pancakes which is great because Jim and Gabriella also love them so it becomes something on the list of Things All Four of Us Like To Eat.
Sandra Dodd: Miracle Whip in England is called "salad cream." It's like mayonnaise kind of, but blander, sweeter.
Sandra Dodd: no eggs or vinegar
Sandra Dodd: (I think)
AlexP: I actually like that kind of sandwich Sandra! My grandmother used to make something like that! It reminds me of her.
Sandra Dodd: When you get to visit, Alex, when we're not looking for Korean food, I'll make you that sandwich.
Sylvia Woodman: My kids are watching a lot of Animae (is that spelled right?) these days. So they are interested in the food they see there. So Ramen is becoming more of a thing in our house.
Sandra Dodd: With avocado.
Sandra Dodd: anime
Sandra Dodd: In case anyone here isn't familiar with my ancient and happy food pages, here:
Sylvia Woodman: OH! That's another place where Harry gets ideas about food! VIDEO GAMES! Harry would never eat any kind of sandwich other than Nutella or Peanut butter and Jelly
Sandra Dodd: http://sandradodd.com/food
AlexP: My husband Brian cannot smell so he cannot taste. He eats foods that he used to like and that bring him joy. Looks and texture are important to him plus the memory of enjoying them. Food can be totally about what emotions you have attached to it. Force wont help
Sandra Dodd: I called it "The Full Plate Club" to represent abundance and choice. And in reaction to "the empty plate club" that people use to pressure kids to finish all their food, which is awful.
Sandra Dodd: And it sounds empty.
Sylvia Woodman: But then he saw a "Sandvich" in TF2 which seems to be ham and cheese on white bread cut on the diagonal with a fancy toothpick (maybe with an olive).
Sandra Dodd: It sounds sad.
Sylvia Woodman: He showed me a picture and asked me if I could make that. So I did. Easy enough and he thought it was pretty good. So that's another thing he will eat.
Marta Venturini: I remember that story (of Sandra telling her kids to taste something new and to spit it out on her hand if they didn't like it) very early on, when I started reading about radical unschooling, and I've done that with Conchinha since she was little. She's much more adventurous and fearless with food than I ever was.
Sandra Dodd: Sylvia's sandvich sounds happy. Empty plate club sounds sad :-)
Sylvia Woodman: Sometimes when I ask the kids what we should have for dinner they say Sandwich Night!
Serah joined the chat 13 days ago
Sandra Dodd: Serah (who has just joined the chat) has a happy kitchen and her husband and kids seem happy and excited about her cooking. I loved what she made when I was there.
Sandra Dodd: Their traditional cooking is an East-African-tinged Muslim version of Hindu food from India, that took 150 years to go through those transitions.
Serah: my boys still love Dr. Pepper after you introduced it to them
Sandra Dodd: (Now you can say "Wrong, wrong...." if you want to Serah. I could have it wrong.)
Marta Venturini: Wow, I want to try something cooked by Serah!
Sylvia Woodman: Oh wow! That sounds so yummy Serah!
AlexP: Yes Danile has ried some food because of video games! Leeks were a big one!
Serah: yes, that's mostly right.
Sandra Dodd: Ah. We had the nearly ceremonial Tasting of the Dr. Pepper." They were hesitant. Cautious. Small tastes. :-)
Serah: The boys had a games day with there friends last weekend and dr.pepper was on the shopping list
Sylvia Woodman: Harry has this thing about Coke-a-cola. When we go to restaurants he orders one but he never really drinks it.
Sandra Dodd: It's fruity and less carbonated than coke.
AlexP: I really want to try Serah food! Her and her husband talked about it a bit here while I made them Kimchi Omurice and it sounds amazing!
Sylvia Woodman: Jim loves Dr Pepper.
Sandra Dodd: The only times I drink Coke is at a party with food where others are drinking beer, maybe and Coke is all there is. OR.... in England.
Serah: our favourite drink right now is Barbican a non alcoholic malted drink found in middle eastern stores
Marta Venturini: No Dr Pepper in England?
Sandra Dodd: When I've been in England a while, if a restaurant has coke or wine or beer or coke and unrecognizeable things, I'll take the coke and it reminds me of home.
Sylvia Woodman: I like Cream Soda which is hard to find sometimes.
Sandra Dodd: Grocery stores have coke now, there, but no restaurants.
Serah: anytime, Alex!
AlexP: I am a diet Dr pepper drinker. We
AlexP: When I drink pop. I really just like carbonated /sparkling water
Serah: Qm's favourite cream soda is only sold in the US and even then it's hard to find
AlexP: Guarana pop from Brazil. Kind of like Ginger Ale but much much better!
Sandra Dodd: Off looking up Barbican Malt Beverage:
Sandra Dodd: "Barbican is available in a wide choice of flavours in bottles and cans: Malt, Apple, Strawberry, Raspberry, Lemon, Pineapple, Peach and Pomegranate"
Sandra Dodd: Lemon malt beverage sounds good!
Sylvia Woodman: My Dad loved Tab soda.
Serah: we do a lot of those too, sparkling water mixed with juice and a splash of lime ;-)
Sandra Dodd: It also reminds me of the Brit thing, which they sell in Orlando FL, now, because they get so many tourists from the UK there.
Sylvia Woodman: He loved the bitter taste of the saccharine. He was so sad when they changed it over to Nutra-sweet or whatever it is they used diet soda.
Sandra Dodd: What's it called, though? You mix it with water. And it has malt in it, some of them, and it's flavored (mostly) with current.
Sandra Dodd: Ribena!
Sylvia Woodman: My mother loved to drink something called bitter lemon. Which I think is something meant to be mixed with rum or gin.
Sylvia Woodman: But she just drank it like soda.
Sandra Dodd: Oh no! http://metro.co.uk/2015/07/28/tesco-is-t...
Sandra Dodd: Ribena's in trouble.
Serah: i dranktons of ribeena as a kid
Sandra Dodd: So...
Serah: pls excuse typos (typing whilst nursing)
Sandra Dodd: I drank lots of Kool-Aid, as a kid. It's CLEARLY just flavoring, water and a big cup of sugar.
AlexP: Draktons is a great word!
Sandra Dodd: But pretty much tea and coffee are too.
Sandra Dodd: And we lived, every one of us here.
Sylvia Woodman: Someone in our neighborhood gave out pouches of Capri Sun for Halloween. I thought that was a clever idea.
Sandra Dodd: And our parents and grandparents, generally, got at least old enough to reproduce, and some got old. Some are still kickin.'.
Sylvia Woodman: Harry likes juice now and then.
AlexP: I give my kids coolaid! They like it! Both kids drink water too. Gigi likes the Sparking water like me. Daniel drinks regular water. I have heard parents say their kids will never drink water if they dont limit other drinks but that has not been the case here. Gigi likes diet coke
Sylvia Woodman: But every time we go to the doctor (which is infrequent thankfully!) They ask about juice consumption.
Sandra Dodd: I figure if I LET a child drink or eat something that isn't "the best thing in the world" (by measures of "healthy food" and all that), it was way (way) different from MAKING them eat anything.
Sandra Dodd: And none of my kids ever once ate more than he wanted to.
Sandra Dodd: That's pretty important, I think.
Marta Venturini: Conchinha can drink anything she wants and she only drinks water (tons) and fresh orange juice.
AlexP: YEs! Very important.
Sylvia Woodman: Right! Harry sees a lot of fast food commercials so he wants to try it. I want to encourage him to try new things so if he wants to try KFC I'm going to help him do that!
Serah: what about coffee? my almost 12 year old takes sips from my mug. he wants his own cup. not sure what to do...?
Sandra Dodd: And all of them will turn down even a favorite food based on how they're feeling. Sometimes one will say "I can't eat anything greasy today" or "Do you have any fruit?" and it's not a casual preferene—it's them knowing that their body needs this or that, because of the way their guts are feeling, or throat, or whatever.
AlexP: I have seem parents that limit food tell their kids to fiish their food. How is that not confusing?
Parvine: I had the same Marta, kids had a choice but they turn to water when thirsty, They love water.
Sandra Dodd: Serah, I think coffee was made "an adult drink" because it was expensive.
Sandra Dodd: They didn't want kids to "waste" it (by liking it or drinking what the adults wanted.
Sylvia Woodman: What part of it worries you Serah? The caffeine? Something else?
Sandra Dodd: I think that was probably true in the 17th century when it first was spread around by explorers coming back from south America, and I think it had a resurgence in the 1970's when there was a big inflation AND on top of that the price of coffee went way up.
Sandra Dodd: I don't think it's about anything but cost and being controlling.
AlexP: Serah in Brazil kids are giving coffee with milk in the bottle when they are like a year old. My sister grew up drinking it. She is taller than me who did not like it. Saying that because they used to say coffee stunts your growth
Sylvia Woodman: I have a friend who orders decaf coffee for her daughter (under ten I forget exactly how old she is) in restaurants and get's a lot of crap from waitresses about it. :(
Sandra Dodd: When we were little people said "Coffee will stunt your growth." So that scared kids. But the same lying adults said that bread crusts would make our hair grow long, or get curly (depending which lie was being told). And they told the boys that if they masturbated, they would grow hair on the palms of their hands.
Serah: my cousin who saw my son take a sip from my cup started going on about caffine affecting adrenals in growth...
Sandra Dodd: I thin coffee not being for kids is just some more of that
Sylvia Woodman: And that you had to wait an hours after eating to get back in the pool.
Sandra Dodd: -=-I have seem parents that limit food tell their kids to finish their food. How is that not confusing?-=-
Sylvia Woodman: A lie made up for the convenience of the adults.
Sandra Dodd: I think you meant "finish their food"
Sandra Dodd: Keith's mom liked to measure and control how much food he ate.
Sandra Dodd: She wanted to give him a small portion and see that he finished it.
Sandra Dodd: He did, but the he went to eat at friends' houses, or went and bought burgers or pizza when she wasn't looking.
Sandra Dodd: My kids never EVER had the least reason to sneak food.
Sandra Dodd: Serah, ask for articles or links, next time, maybe. I think your cousin is wrong. I could be wrong, but I think it's just noise. Tradiitional noise, and part of the limiting, belittling stuff that's been done to kids, to save the good stuff for the adults. :-)
Sandra Dodd: If they don't have a choice, they can't choose.
Sandra Dodd: And people who grew up being told "you'll eat what I give you" don't learn about food. They don't learn as much about love, either.
Marta Venturini: I was just rereading what I wrote and something crossed my mind. I think it might sound as if drinking water and orange juice is better than drinking other stuff. I don't think it is, but I realize that it might come across as that. The good part is that Conchinha has choices and happily chooses what she likes.
Sandra Dodd: But it's not what a lot of people would assume or guess or predict, Marta, and that makes it worth reporting.
AlexP: So Caffeine neither stunts your growth of affects your adrenal glands. There are people who sell that idea but they are people who are not following real sciene .They are the people who are feeding the Natural LCLean eating diet will cure you crazy going around. They are the poeple that want to sell you something
Marta Venturini: Yes Sandra, I see what you mean.
Sylvia Woodman: Yes far and away the thing my kids drink the most is either water or whole milk. (And now people think I should switch them off of whole milk to skim....)
Serah: yeah, i think i need to look more into it. Alex, this is how we are with tea in our culture. From babies we dip cookies or bread in tea and let our kids eat that. coffee shouldn't be too different.
Sandra Dodd: Now lately? I don't think so, Sylvia. Skim milk is being chucked in the "what were we thinking?" pile, with margarine, lately.
Sandra Dodd: If Brazilians are doing it, and they're plenty healthy and numerous, maybe it won't kill children or make them short.
Sandra Dodd: HEY, are Brazilians all short? Alex is short.
Sandra Dodd: Maybe it's the coffee. :-)
Marta Venturini: Hehehehe
Serah: lol
AlexP: I am 5'4P so
AlexP: so average. Not short. My sister is taller (
Sandra Dodd: You're above Brazilian average for female height, Alex.
AlexP: Well my sster was the one who drank the coffee and look at her. Much taller than me. I did not and I am the short one in my family. My mom used to be much taller than me but she shrunk
Marta Venturini: -=-And all of them will turn down even a favorite food based on how they're feeling.-=- Conchinha loves that chocolate mousse cake that I bake. She has turned it down more than once (she probably didn't feel like eating it at the moment).
catiamaciel: (my husband arrived, we are having dinner so, i will not be on the chat :))
AlexP: It is such a mixed population. If you go North there are shorter people , if you go South taller.
AlexP: But not as short as Asians usually.
Marta Venturini: It's very cool to see her joyful relationship with food.
Sylvia Woodman: OMG I made Jim a Peanut Butter Melt away Cake for his birthday yesterday. Harry only had one bite of it and lost interest. That would never have happened when I was a child.
Sandra Dodd: I'm off reading about height.
Marta Venturini: Same here, Sylvia.
Sandra Dodd: Men in the Netherlands are TALL. Women, too, I saw there, lots 6' and over.
Marta Venturini: Sometimes I would eat so much that I would feel sick...
Marta Venturini: Graham is SO tall. I'm a midget when I'm by his side. :P
Sandra Dodd: But the wikipedia artical about the history of human height says that in the 19th century, the Dutch were known for being short.
AlexP: Me too. Brazil Rural is about 5'7" 1/2 for men and 5'2" women
Sandra Dodd: Dutchmen were 5'3" on average in the middle of the 19th century.
Sylvia Woodman joined the chat 13 days ago
Sandra Dodd: So it might have to do with food, what... who knows. Gut bacteria? (Seriously, maybe.)
Marta Venturini: Not only does Conchinha have a joyful relationship with food, but she's also very attuned with what she wants and needs, how much, etc.
AlexP: Urban male 5'8" 1/2 and women 5'3" 1/2
Sandra Dodd: They're saying that at the time of the American Revolution, the north Americans of European descent were 3" taller than Europeans from the same gene pool
Sandra Dodd: nd that Plains Indians were among the tallest in the world, at that time.
Sandra Dodd: So maybe it was the place and time together.
Sandra Dodd: But this is my point:
Sandra Dodd: Because we don't know, we don't know.
AlexP: I read somewhere that generations tend to be taller and it is part to do with Nutrition and part genetics
Sandra Dodd: No sense blaming coffee
AlexP: Yeah coffee does not stunt growth.
Sandra Dodd: Because Alex got me addicted to one of the substances in her life, I know that South Korean men now in their 20's and 30's are TALL compared to any of their dads or grandfathers.
Marta Venturini: :D
Serah: Mj will be VERY happy #:-S
AlexP: I rubed my eyes and now everything is blurry
Sandra Dodd: A 2004 report citing a 2003 UNICEF study on the effects of malnutrition in North Korea, due to "successive famines," found young adult males to be significantly shorter.[specify] In contrast South Koreans "feasting on an increasingly Western-influenced diet," without famine, were growing taller. The height difference is minimal for Koreans over 40, who grew up at a time when economic conditions in the North were roughly comparable to those in the South, while height disparities are most acute for Koreans who grew up in the mid-1990s – a demographic in which South Koreans are about 12 cm (4.7 in) taller than their North Korean counterparts – as this was a period during which the North was affected by a harsh famine.[50] A study by South Korean anthropologists of North Korean children who had defected to China found that 18-year-old males were 5 inches shorter than South Koreans their age due to malnutrition.[51]
Sandra Dodd: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height
AlexP: and they drink Coffee~ Coffee is big in Korean
AlexP: Korea. Vision still not totally back yet
Sandra Dodd: "Malnutrition" is a scary word. My mom and her siblings had physical problems from malnutrition. They were itinerate cotton pickers for much of her childhood.
Sandra Dodd: But malnutrition can't happen when a child has choices of lots of food.
AlexP: But out kids wont suffer from that even if they eat only what they want to eat.
Sandra Dodd: If the parents are happy and encouraging and not judgmental or shaming, THEN their children can learn about their own bodies and needs and come to choose foods that are right for them. They won't eat too much. They won't eat too little, if food isn't made into a crazy circus of sin and danger and shame and anger.
Sandra Dodd: In my book I have a thing about not feeding kids by the clock. "The clock's not hungry."
Sandra Dodd: Keith showed me an article the other day (I didn't read it all) about a baby with scurvy from drinking almond milk.
AlexP: I really worry more about the children who grow up in homes where food is deamed as bad as posions if they are not "clean" or orgaic, Gmo free and unprocessed .
Sandra Dodd: I wanted to find the mom and shake her and ask her if she thought "almond milk" had ANYTHING (other than its name) to do with actual milk.
Sandra Dodd: Alex, me too. And that can tie in with what Parvine wrote at first, about it being the parents "beliefs."
AlexP: Yep and that is why I worry about all this crazyness orthorexia inducing fixation with eating right now
Sandra Dodd: Just as with odd, strict religious upbringings, the child will grow up and follow the parents blindly, OR will rebel by eating ALL the things they were told not to, and maybe they will also reject EVERYthing their parents said or believed, if they find out that iceberg lettuce and corn on the cob won't kill them.
Serah: it really is a crazyness
Serah: it really is a crazynss
Sandra Dodd: There were two chats on food in 2009. I went and looked through the transcripts.
AlexP: But worse because they will rebel , eat the poisoned food, and feel bad and guilty doing so. Even more negative feelings associated with eating.
Sandra Dodd: The word "gluten" appeared once, and not in a crazy claim. And it went by without comment.
Marta Venturini: Indeed, Alex.
Sandra Dodd: it's interesting to see those chats, and overlay what we know would happen today if they were out in public and people would jump in crazily (Serah's right).
Sylvia Woodman: ==-==baby with scurvy from drinking almond milk.==-== Yes that showed up in my LLL Leader group.
Sandra Dodd: But it will pass. It will last five years or so and then there will be a new wave of crazy, I bet.
AlexP: I think it has gotten worse since 2009 because some scam artist are now banking in parents fears and selling their snake oil so they are spouting unbelievable clams and people fall for them.
Sandra Dodd: Ren Allen was raised in a small Christian cult where wearing make-up was flatly big sin, and she couldn't play with a Barbie doll.
Sandra Dodd: Now she paints the entire bodies of nekkid models. Reactionary? :-) But also really cool art.
Marta Venturini: :)
Sandra Dodd: They're not all nekkid. Holly wasn't. Ren did some beautiful stuff on Holly.
Sandra Dodd: https://www.facebook.com/artistren/photo...
Sandra Dodd: http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2014/03/h...
Sandra Dodd: What topic does anyone want for next week? Any good ideas?
Sandra Dodd: We could go through Pam Laricchia's book chapters, maybe, of her new little intro book.
Sandra Dodd: It's free, for an e-book.
AlexP: teens
Sandra Dodd: Are you the only one here with a teen?
Marta Venturini: Another thing that has happened is that Conchinha stopped wanting to go to MacDonald's, much to my dismay... :P I love MacDonald's! I think it brings back happy memories. We went there once in a while and she would love it and now she doesn't want to.
Sandra Dodd: Sylvia and Serah are getting there.
Marta Venturini: Yes, teens! Good topic.
Sandra Dodd: Ana, I don't know.
Sandra Dodd: Marta, what makes it a good topic? You, Parvine, Catia, Marta... little kids.
Marta Venturini: Step-teen here. ;)
Serah: i have a teen
Sandra Dodd: True.
Serah: and a toddler!
Marta Venturini: Ana also has a step-teen.
Sandra Dodd: Okay then. :-)
AlexP: I was gona say because we have booys same age!
Sandra Dodd: They will sell a toy at McD here without a happy meal.
Sandra Dodd: Last time I took Devyn so she could play at McDonald's, I bought her an extra Shopkins toy and kept it in my pocket until the end. :-)
Marta Venturini: Parvine has two teenagers (18 and 16, I think) and one on the way (12?).
Parvine: I would appreciate teens as topic. I love teens!
Sandra Dodd: Okay, Okay!!!
Sandra Dodd: Teens!
Marta Venturini: Hehehehehe
AlexP: Sylvia i
AlexP: How old is Gabriella?
Marta Venturini: Sorry Parvine, I didn't know you were here. ;)
Parvine: Popping in and out tonight due to relatives around ! They will be 18 and 16 and 13 in a fe months ;)
AlexP: Okay. I am going to go now. Thank you Sandra and everyone. Going to town to get diet coke and some cat stuff.
AlexP: Brian needs his diet coke!!
Sandra Dodd: Thansk for being here.
AlexP: Bye!
Sandra Dodd: Anyone have any other kinds of issues or problems, other than food?
Sandra Dodd: (Or food-related) for the last fifteen minutes?
Serah: i should go too... time to make dinner
Marta Venturini: I have a question about London. Should I e-mail you instead?
Serah: bye
Marta Venturini: Bye Serah!
Parvine: bye serah!
Sandra Dodd: I don't mind it being here, Marta. People are bailing. And we can run two conversations at once. :-)
Sandra Dodd: Dinner at Serah's house.... mmmm.
Serah: oh wait nosey me wants to hear Marta's question :-P
Marta Venturini: I remember that you were planning on going to a fair when you're in England. When are you planning on doing that?
Marta Venturini: Don't remember the name.
Sandra Dodd: The Saturday after you leave. Sorry.
Marta Venturini: Oh rats
Sandra Dodd: It's only on Friday and Saturday nights, and only for a while (a few weeks) each fall.
Sylvia Woodman: Gabriella is 11.5
Marta Venturini: Ok
Sandra Dodd: Because of the prep for the Saturday conference, I don't think we can risk putting it on that weekend.
Marta Venturini: Hehehehe Serah ;)
Marta Venturini: Yes, you're right.
Sandra Dodd: The place is called Hollycombe Steam in the Country, though.
Serah: Sandra, what are the dates you are in London
Sandra Dodd: I'm speaking on the 18th.
catiamaciel: I would like to participate/ read a chat about money (or the lack of it) and unschooling. Or, subjects related to that like creating aboundance..
Sandra Dodd: I'll be in the UK (but not always in London) from August 12 to September 26 (leaving that day)
Sandra Dodd: Okay. The week after teens, abundance/finances.
catiamaciel: thank you :)
Sandra Dodd: It needs a car, Hollycombe does. It's not anywhere near public transportation.
Marta Venturini: Ok, thanks for the info.
Sandra Dodd: They have farm equipment, a sawmill, various steam-powered equipment. But the best and prettiest thing is their ever-growing fairground. You pay to get in and then can just ride everything all you want.
Marta Venturini: Serah, where will you be staying?
Sylvia Woodman: Are you speaking at conferences or just visiting friends?
Sandra Dodd: And the games, you just play, and et a prize. :-)
Sandra Dodd: Not a conference, just speaking, just me.
Parvine: I am so looking forward to the UK trip :)))
Marta Venturini: Sounds like so much fun, Sandra!
Serah: with family in Harrow
Sandra Dodd: I think I'm speaking three or four times, mostly small and informal, and one more formal on September 18
Sandra Dodd: OH! Marta, that's a Sunday.
Parvine: I know how excited Marta is!
Marta Venturini: I am! I am! I am!
Marta Venturini: :D
Sandra Dodd: I had rejected the fair idea because of speaking on Saturday, but it turned out NOT to be Sunday.
Marta Venturini: Yes, 18 is Sunday.
Sandra Dodd: (Serah's not making dinner. She's talking about London.)
Marta Venturini: She's excited too. ;)
Sandra Dodd: So I'll ask Julie what about the possibility of doing Hollycombe with other families that weekend.
Serah: hungry kids rummaging in the fridge
Sandra Dodd: DOWNSIDE: Exhaustion. Stress for parents.
Marta Venturini: What about doing it on Friday?
Sandra Dodd: Maybe Friday.
Marta Venturini: Ok. Let's see then.
Serah: Hollycombe sounds so cool
Marta Venturini: If it works, cool. If not, cool too.
Sandra Dodd: With young kids it would be good to go in the daylight, but then stay until they turn the lights on.
Marta Venturini: It does!
Sylvia Woodman: I should go make some food for my kids too. This was lovely! I'm so glad you are doing these chats again Sandra!
Sandra Dodd: My purpose in going (to England) is to see that fairground with the steam-powered electric lights.
Serah: i think that we are staying a little far from the conferem
Serah: conference site though
Marta Venturini: Me too, Sylvia. I missed the chats so much. ;)
Sylvia Woodman: Bye everyone! /bye
Sylvia Woodman left the chat 13 days ago
Sandra Dodd: Getting there involves some small little roads. Not tiny, but not big motorway. So I don't know if it's a good idea for foreign drivers, in the dark, which is why I was just going to leave it for my last weekend there.
Marta Venturini: We can rent a car and take Parvine and her kids, if they want to come. You'll probably go with Julie and Rippy, right?
Marta Venturini: You've got a point there.
Sandra Dodd: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...
Serah: Marta where will you be staying?
Sandra Dodd: AH. Sundays and bank holidays, it says. So Sunday WAS a problem. I don't know what their schedule will be for sure.
Sandra Dodd: AH. Sundays and bank holidays, it says. So Sunday WAS a problem. I don't know what their schedule will be for sure.
Sandra Dodd: http://www.hollycombe.co.uk
Marta Venturini: We will be staying at a hotel that I think is near Julie's house, isn't it Sandra?
Sandra Dodd: I can't fit with Julie and Rippy all at once.
Parvine: Serah we are not far from Harrow.
Sandra Dodd: But I don't need to go if you go in the daytime.
Serah: :)
Marta Venturini: Oh, ok.
Sandra Dodd: For nighttime openings, Julie wrote and asked: " Current plans are to be open on the evenings of Saturdays 17th & 24th September (and then most Sat evenings in October)."
Sandra Dodd: So right. One is the night before the event, so not a good plan. Sorry.
Marta Venturini: Ok, no worries.
Marta Venturini: Do you have any other plans for that week that we're there, Sandra?
Parvine: Thank you Sandra, see you all next week :)
Marta Venturini: Other than the conference, that is.
Sandra Dodd: I had to dig it out of e-mail
Sandra Dodd: https://www.travelodge.co.uk/hotels/308/...
Sandra Dodd: I don't.
Serah: miss the chats! love the chats! thanks Sandra!
Marta Venturini: We want to be with you as much as we possibly can, without imposing ourselves on you.
Sandra Dodd: I figure there will be places where kids can play.
