From Sandra's notes for today's chat:
(First note)
"[This] chat will be about avoiding words that harm peace or unschooling or the attitude needed for those.
In a discussion I was just in, I wrote:
'As to who "deserves" to be treated how and who is "sacrificing," those terms can do damage. If you "deserve" something, where do you appeal to make sure you get it? If you have "sacrificed…" what are you sacrificing?'
'As to who "deserves" to be treated how and who is "sacrificing," those terms can do damage. If you "deserve" something, where do you appeal to make sure you get it? If you have "sacrificed…" what are you sacrificing?'
That made me think of Heather Booths' request to discuss words (and it might've come up last week, but last week's chat got going and didn't pause, after a while).
If you have a story of changed thinking that involves words or phrases, bring it Wednesday!"
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(Second note)
"Sandra Dodd and Heather Booth—an exchange:
Sandra: Heather, I'm sorry we didn't get to your question on words last week. I forgot to bring it up. Could you describe what would help you with your project?
Heather: One of the things that helped when I started unschooling was becoming aware of the words I used. The clearer I became in my thoughts and the more aware of the impact of my words, the better I was at being an unschooling parent. I want to discuss with my group the power of words. "Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch" and "Say yes more" are great phrases to get you going in the right direction but if you are still saying "have to" or "junk food " or "screen time" then you're stuck in negative thoughts.
Let’s make a list of words and phrases that hinder unschooling – and a list of alternatives phrases or thoughts. If we have time at the end let's end on a high note and make a list of words that help.
Sandra Dodd: Okay! I want to talk about illogical phrases, then, if there's time. Sometimes something sounds good but makes no sense. It's good for people to be on the lookout for those, too. 
"
"
heathermbooth: I'm here! But will be right back
Virginia Warren: Love this topic. I've been thinking about the words "deserve" and "sacrifice" a lot. They both seem to have big problems to me.
Marta Pires: Love this topic too, Virginia. Great topic.
Marta Pires: My parents are coming over to play with Conchinha, so I'm not sure if I'll be able to be here much. I'll probably only read. 
Conchinha usually wants me to be with her.
Conchinha usually wants me to be with her.
Virginia Warren: I'm thinking of a line from a song on Weird Al's new album
Virginia Warren: "I would make any sacrifice for your love: goat, chicken, whatever."
heathermbooth: Back Good morning!
Good morning!
Marta Pires: Good afternoon!
Virginia Warren: I love the new chat time
Sandra Dodd: Thanks, Marta, for the ping. I had an alarm set for 8:26, but I still went to answer One More post. And I forgot.
And I forgot.
Marta Pires:
Marta Pires: I did the same with Alex and Sara too!
Sandra Dodd: Yesterday Holly and I and a friend of hers went to see a 3D IMAX National Geographic movie about Jerusalem, called Jerusalem.
Sandra Dodd: If you get a chance to see it, it's great! Beautiful. Helicoper shots. Steadi-cam shots through narrow streets, into shops. Vertical boom shots of some sort (maybe a camera going up a pole) that start at street level and go up and look down through lights and decorations and such.
Sandra Dodd: History. Archeology. Not much politics. Beautiful, beautiful visuals.
[I cut out some chat about the chats which has been preserved elsewhere]
Sandra Dodd: I want two more people NOW so we can go to the topic because I'm excited about it.
Sandra Dodd: Or we could just start now.
Sandra Dodd: Can I break my own rules! ? Damn rules.
Marta Pires: 
Sandra Dodd: One complaint we get on Always Learning is that there are "too many rules."
Sandra Dodd: It comes up when we ask people not to use the word "teach."
Sandra Dodd: And it's not because it's "a rule," it's because it will change their lives if they can back away from standing nose-deep in "teach" and stand where they can see learning.
Sandra Dodd: And "have to" gets complaints, too, sometimes, when we ask people to back away from "have to" and to rephrase it as "chose to."
Sandra Dodd: But it has to do with clarity. http://sandradodd.com/clarity
Sandra Dodd: Heather, do you have a list started?
Serah: Not using "teach" changed my life... But now it bothers me when other people use it 
Sandra Dodd: (Heather might be waiting for the hour, because she knows the rule / tradition.)
Sandra Dodd: Serah, that is an interesting side-effect of clearer thinking.
Marta Pires: Alex!!!
heathermbooth: I do. You already hit some big ones. "Have to" and "teach".
Marta Pires: Same here, Serah.
heathermbooth: Junk food.
Virginia Warren: Yup
heathermbooth: Screen time
Virginia Warren: "get them"
Robin B.: Have to
heathermbooth: Can you explain "get them"?
Sandra Dodd: I posted a story on Always Learning that bugged the heck out of me. A mom running a facebook page about unschooling pre-school kids had the more horrible fallacy, that everytime you get in a car you have a 9% chance of getting in a wreck.
Robin B.: Oops - Heather got that one.
Virginia Warren: Like how do I "get them to do X"
Sandra Dodd: The error bothered me, but then she defended it, and her husband came and was snarky. And I don't care if there are people who aren't clear in their thinking, living in the world. I am bothered when they jump up and try to represent unschooling, and then are very muddly.
Sandra Dodd: Oh! Virginia, what do you recommend when it comes by?
Sandra Dodd: "Help them"?
Virginia Warren: It depends
Sandra Dodd: a list of terms in a sidebar will be good for this chat, when it's edited, someday in the fantasy future.
heathermbooth: People talking about "wasted" time and money when it comes to food not eaten, classes quit, fun not had when money was spent.
Celeste joined the chat 6 days ago
Sandra Dodd: The wasted time is the complaint phase.
Virginia Warren: More deschooling, usually
Sandra Dodd: Note to everyone: This will be preserved raw, so don't say anything you'll wish you hadn't.
Sandra Dodd: That's just good advice for most of life.
Sandra Dodd: I wish I could take back a couple of things from the past week in my real life. Don't say what you'll wish you hadn't, though.
Jaclyn Koehl joined the chat
Sandra Dodd: "Junk food" and "screen time" are like a huge metal door pulled down between a person and the world of reality.
Sandra Dodd: And the kid probably wants to be on the other side of that door from the parent.
heathermbooth: At Free To Be Conference a mom jumped in the conversation and said, "Well, what about Family Guy?" talking about kids watching TV. "I CAUGHT my son watching it in the game room yesterday." Eww. I did not like that visual. Poor kid.
Sandra Dodd: Poor kid!
heathermbooth: yea.
heathermbooth: So, caught is on the list of harmful words for sure!
Sandra Dodd: I hope Free to Be doesn't keep my December symposium from success. If every story from it was positive, I might not mind so much...
Virginia Warren: Getting caught, yuck. People say this about their partners, too.
Robin B.: The majority of stories from Free to Be (from people I trust) have been positive.
heathermbooth: If you're thinking you "caught" your kid what are some phrases to reframe that thought?
Virginia Warren: Discovered?
Sandra Dodd: I hadn't thought of that as a word to avoid. I see it as an example of an adversarial relationship, though. So maybe both "get him to" (control) and "caught him" (adversarial relationship) are concept more than word?
heathermbooth: noticed?
Sandra Dodd: That's why I don't think it's a word for the word list.
Sandra Dodd: But maybe I'm wrong.
Sandra Dodd: Because teaching is concept, too.
Sandra Dodd: There's no simple rephrasing that will do it. It's replacement of whole visions!
Jaclyn Koehl: two words that bother me are "whatever" and "just"
Sandra Dodd: Did they bother you always?
Jaclyn Koehl: no, when used dismissively
Virginia Warren: "just" is a red flag for minimizing, and oversimplifying
Sandra Dodd: I was trying (but failed) to say to Serah that the byproduct of becoming aware of harmful words and phrases is the disadvantage of bristling when we hear them elsewhere.
Sandra Dodd: Sometimes it is. But not in "Just Add Light and Stir."
heathermbooth: I suspect lots of these words will be about replacing once vision of things.
Sandra Dodd: You're right, Heather.
Jaclyn Koehl: Yes, I like what Virginia said about "just"
Sandra Dodd: I do too, Jaclyn, and I've said it myself, but look at the phrase, there, and not the word.
Sandra Dodd: If someone says "my kid won't leave the video game to eat—what did you do?"
Sandra Dodd: And if I say "I just made sure they had food they could reach,"
Sandra Dodd: what I'm saying is "I simply changed my perspective."
Virginia Warren: Like, "my kid freaked out, just because X!"
Sandra Dodd: "Simply" is a legit meaning for "just."
Virginia Warren: Concurr
Sandra Dodd: That might be a logic problem, though, in the freaking out statement.
Sandra Dodd: Too often we (I do too) look at what's happening instead of what caused what's happening, and two or three steps behind that.
Sandra Dodd: Holly's crying; she says X. But what before X?
heathermbooth: In the freaking out moment the parent is minimizing how the kids feels. The parent thinks it wasn't a big deal whatever happened, when the kid did.
Virginia Warren: Yes. They might be wrong about why the kid was upset.
Sandra Dodd: Too quick to state a cause can be an abuse of "just."
Sandra Dodd: Holly (speaking of Holly) referenced a great old Sesame Street skit about what a tree is for the other day. If I can find that and link it here, that would be good.
Sandra Dodd: David (so it was long ago) dressed as a professor (robes, mortarboard) lecturing to a class of muppets, about what a tree is for.
Sandra Dodd: On the surface it can be just something very young children would laugh at, but it's good for deeper subjects, too.
Sandra Dodd
Sandra Dodd: His phrase is not "just." It is "And THAT is all."
Sandra Dodd: Divergent thinking is good.
Sandra Dodd: Qualifying our statements is BIG in being clear and logical.
Sandra Dodd: -=- The parent thinks it wasn't a big deal whatever happened, when the kid did.-=-
Sandra Dodd: Yes.
Sandra Dodd: So treating children as whole people and not "just kids" is good.
Sandra Dodd: That's one of the cruelist minimalizations: He's just a child."
heathermbooth: Yes! And not using word like "lazy" and "spoiled" to describe them.
Sandra Dodd: But then… when I got used to being more respectful of children, I bristled when an adult told another adult "you're being childish."
Sandra Dodd:
Virginia Warren: Yes!
Marta Pires:
Sandra Dodd: I hear "have to" clearly now. And I want to point it out every time. But I try to limit my jumping up and rephrasing to Always Learning and to Radical Unschooling Info on facebook.
Serah: Ha ha! Another side effect of clearer thinking!
Sandra Dodd: Maybe we should warn people that if they become good at these things, they'll be less happy than they were before, around casual ignorance.
Sandra Dodd: I have thought sometimes I would be happier if I didn't see misspellings and misuses of apostrophes, out in the world.
Sandra Dodd: I might be happier if I didn't have such a strong aversion to lying and bullshit.
Marta Pires: Hehehe
Robin B.: It's true. I've wished for blissful ignorance, on occasion.
heathermbooth: I put a question mark by this one. I bristle when I hear "My child is special needs." Thoughts?
Sandra Dodd: I would like my neighbors more if I wan't so particular about how people treated their dogs and children.
Sandra Dodd: Outside of school, what does "special needs" mean?
heathermbooth: Or right out of the gate parents on list describe their kids as "special needs".
Virginia Warren: I still use "spoiled" in the sense that I've grown accustomed to something very good, and won't go back to something that's not as good.
Sandra Dodd: IN school, it means money and different teachers and privileges (or loss thereof) but when a child isn't in school, it's as schoolish as saying "he's a third grader and this is report-card week."
Sandra Dodd: Virginia is it helpful to keep that word?
Robin B.: I bristle at the use of "is *something*." It doesn't leave much room for change.
Jill Parmer: So true, Sandra. Casual ignorance stands out so ugly now.
Sandra Dodd: I don't want to live without a washer and dryer ever again if I don't have to, but I see it as being grateful for the convenience, not as being spoiled.
Robin B.: And every child has particular needs. Every person.
Virginia Warren: Probably not. I don't refer to others that way, only myself.
Sandra Dodd: Unless landramats or washing clothes in a river is virtuous and "right," then how have I been "ruined"?
Sandra Dodd: I like having a house that doesn't leak. Am I "spoiled"? (Maybe )
)
heathermbooth: Every person and thinking of your child as "special needs" gets in the way of unschooling. It's a filter to look through your kid at instead of directly at them.
Sandra Dodd: It's not necessarily privilege that keeps houses from leaking, though. Sometimes it's knowledge and willingess to put more cardboard or tin up there.
Sandra Dodd: (Depending on the house)
Celeste left the chat 6 days ago
Sandra Dodd: Heather, clearify please: " It's a filter to look through your kid at instead of directly at them."
Sandra Dodd: (at)
Sandra Dodd: should "at" be deleted in potential future editing?
Sandra Dodd: Robin, "is behind"? or something like that? "Is good at math" or "is afraid of the dark"?
Robin B.: No, I should clarify.
Sandra Dodd: "Is Asperger's"?
Robin B.: "Is trouble." "Is special needs."
Sandra Dodd: It fascinates me that interpersonal skills have been SO ignored in school for so long, and now there's an entire business in dealing with LACK of interpersonal skills.
heathermbooth: If you see your child as special needs your seeing your kid as a list of problems instead of trying to find ways to help your child with what he's struggling with. So, if you're thinking "special needs" that's the filter you are looking through.
Robin B.: It's another way I've changed my language and thinking. Seeing possibilities intead of entrenched in "this person is ____."
Sandra Dodd: The the presence of them can get kids in trouble for being too sociable, for talking, for passing notes, for not minding their own business (thinking of my own school life).
Robin B.: I never got in trouble for those things. I wasn't too sociable.
Robin B.: I got in trouble for showing a tiny tiny bit of my belly in high school (wearing a knit vest without a blouse under it). Detention!
Virginia Warren: I remember being moved across the room from my batman in 2nd grade for talking too much.
Robin B.: I worked on my interpersonal skills in the parking lot, having a smoke.
Virginia Warren: My best friend, not my batman
Virginia Warren: Lol
Robin B.: I was going to say "You had a batman?" Awesome!
heathermbooth: Awe! The batman kinda made the story sadder.
Robin B.: Sandra, do you think it's possible that schools are now worried that the lack of interpersonal skills has led to the interest in technology over interest in what the teacher is saying? Hence the focus now?
Virginia Warren: Another red flag phrase "Don't you think..."
Robin B.: Good thing I didn't say that! ^
heathermbooth: I also have "war terms". At the HSC conference Sandra and I were in a talk where a woman in the audience stood up and described a situation with her son. It was filled with words like "battle", "explode", "struggle".
Robin B.: Ugh.
Sandra Dodd: I don't think so, Robin. I think it's parents wanting special accommodations or exceptions for children who aren't doing well.
Robin B.: I remember readin the book "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. It had some helpful ideas in it, but I covered the title so Senna couldn't read it if she found it. I didn't want her to think that's what I thought of her.
Sandra Dodd: Which is understandable, I guess.
Robin B.: Because that's not what I thought of her. I was thinking more that I needed to understand her way of seeing the world, which was different from mine.
Sandra Dodd: Interesting, Robin—hiding the book title.
Sandra Dodd: -=-Another red flag phrase "Don't you think…"-=-
Sandra Dodd: In a workshop at a conference once someone used a super manipulative phrase I had never heard before
Debbie joined the chat 6 days ago
Sandra Dodd: It was "I have learned that [something, whatever]. Have you learned that?"
Sandra Dodd: Like "I have learned that using the word 'teach' is a problem for unschoolers; have you learned that?"
Sandra Dodd: YIKES!
Sandra Dodd: But what she said was NOT something I agreed with. So she had fortified her statement three ways from Sunday, so a person couldn't say much of anything. It was a grammatical "la la la la I'm not listening."
heathermbooth: That's awkward.
Sandra Dodd: "Special needs" seems (to me, sometimes) to put the responsibility on strangers and friends to "fulfill" that child's "special needs."
Sandra Dodd: Outside of a school employing counsellors and special education teachers (not "special" educators…. another awkward phrase, instructors of special education)...
Sandra Dodd: then who do the parents think is obligated to set their children aside as "special"?
Virginia Warren: I found The Explosive Child useful, but I was disturbed by how the author repeated that punishment worked okay on some kids.
AlexPolikowsky4 joined the chat 6 days ago
Sandra Dodd: It's more helpful for unschoolers to see that they might need to help some of their children more than others, or their child more than other children are being helped.
Robin B.: I think I fell into that trap when my daugther was young. I needed help (with my parenting) and I really wanted people to understand I needed help, but I went about it by saying "my kid does ____- can't you all just understand her?" When what I really needed to say was "I need help in understanding her."
Sandra Dodd: I should declare myself special needs.
Sandra Dodd: I need people to be logical and honest and positive.
Sandra Dodd:
Marta Pires: Ha!
Sandra Dodd: I need people to stop writing about "self-regulation."
Sandra Dodd: I'm joking.
Sandra Dodd: If people didn't writ that once in a while, we wouldn't have the opportunity to discuss it where newer unschoolers think about it.
Virginia Warren: I have been surprised by how long my children needed help with basic stuff like getting dressed and cleaning their bodies.
Sandra Dodd: Kids in school need it but just don't get it.
Robin B.: Virginia, there were many things in that book I just ignored. The school-centered stuff, especially.
Virginia Warren: Exactly, Sandra
Sandra Dodd: They figure it out sometimes to avoid the teasing and meanness of the other kids.
Robin B.: And the punishment stuff.
Sandra Dodd: Heather, are you keeping a list on the side?
Sandra Dodd: of words and terms, I mean?
Sandra Dodd: If you do, could you please mail it to me later?
Sandra Dodd: And if not, that's okay.
Jill Parmer: Some other words to avoid: Hate. Stupid.
Sandra Dodd: YES
heathermbooth: Can we talk about self regulation for a minute? I hear it often, but I don't really know what people mean when they say it. Are they just repeating something they've heard over and over? Or are they talking about something specific I don't understand?
heathermbooth: I am Sandra with notes I can hopefully decipher later
Sandra Dodd: http://sandradodd.com/self-regulation (for the record, for the transcript)
Sandra Dodd: Joyce wrote some good things I saved there. Joyce: "... by using the terms self-control and self-discipline and self-regulation it keeps the thoughts firmly fastened in the idea of always having to stop yourself from taking something you want."
Joyce: "... by using the terms self-control and self-discipline and self-regulation it keeps the thoughts firmly fastened in the idea of always having to stop yourself from taking something you want."
Virginia Warren: Jill: yes! I clearly remember the last time I called something stupid, never again.
Sandra Dodd: Control is a problem, too. In a couple of recent discussions, people have talked about a child being in charge of himself, or in control of his own life.
Robin B.: It seems related to Protestant work ethic, to me, or religious denial of pleasure.
Sandra Dodd: It seems better to me to think of a child (or an adult) LIVING his life, thoughtfully, with others who might help him make decisions.
Virginia Warren: I called a YA book series stupid in front of a young person who loved it.
Sandra Dodd: I think so, Robin. Control your urges, because you're not an animal. Control your desires, because they are not godly.
AlexPolikowsky4: Did you guys ( i read back as best as I could quickly) talk about Autonomy?
AlexPolikowsky4: That seems to be a big one used together with authentic
Sandra Dodd: Virginia, that was a social gaffe, but would it have been less harmful to your own soul and logic if you had said it was stupid in front of someone who also "thought it was stupid"?
AlexPolikowsky4: our Authentic self
Serah: What happens in a family where one child calls the others stupid or dumb consistently?
Sandra Dodd: Get it stopped, Serah. It will make the others internalize those statements, and it harms them as much as hitting does.
AlexPolikowsky4: I would tell my child to stop it. That the other is not stupid and not to call her/him that.
Serah: a friend came to me with this problem... But how to stop it?
Sandra Dodd: i would say "Stop" every time I heard one of those words. I wouldn't let some of them go by.
Serah: the mom tells him to stop and he doesn't. Calls her names too 
AlexPolikowsky4: I used to use stupid a lot. Being a lot more careful around the kids. They will call motorcyclists without a helmet stupid because I always did.
Sandra Dodd: Talk to the child on the side and say how serious it is, and that you won't allow that child to be abused and shamed any more than you would let him be slapped or punched.
Marta Pires: "Freedom" is another one, I believe.
Sandra Dodd: And then say "No." if it's said. "NO, he is not stupid."
Sandra Dodd: Freedom can be a problem, but it's a higher level problem.
Sandra Dodd: It can be used well, and it can be used badly.
Sandra Dodd: I think "teach" should be eliminated at a deep level.
Virginia Warren: I spent a lot of my social life in groups that bonded over hating things. I'm glad to be free of it now.
Sandra Dodd: But I don't thing we should make a list of words that should ALL be treated with the same gravity as "teach."
Sandra Dodd: I can give my children the freedom to keep their rooms messy, to choose their own clothes, to pick foods at the grocery store.
Sandra Dodd: There IS freedom I have and can share.
AlexPolikowsky4: Yep I do not bond with other moms by bashing my husband and kids either. That seems to be a common thing in mom's circles!
Sandra Dodd: But the word can be used in a way outside the family that's not defensible or sensible.
Sandra Dodd: Virginia, that's rough when it's friends.
Virginia Warren: This is a line from a song : "Freedom is a right but having any means you're privileged"
Sandra Dodd: It has been a factor in some unschooling groups, too, or homeschooling "tribes"—they are formed in opposition to something (school, other groups of homeschoolers) and the negativity pervades.
Sandra Dodd: The negativity digs them a hole.
Robin B.: "Tribe" is exclusionary, too.
Sandra Dodd: They become troglodyte neighbors, rather than living up and out in the sunshine.
Sandra Dodd: OH! Put this on the list for consideration: "right" (as in "you have the right to…")
Sandra Dodd: Virginia quoted "Freedom is a right…"
AlexPolikowsky4: I run the unschooling group in Minnesota and I do not let posts bashing school go through.People focus on the evils of school instead of focusing in their kids and learning. Not going to help them unschool better!
Sandra Dodd: That word causes confusion (political, logical, linguistic)
Sandra Dodd: Alex, I will use you as an example.
Sandra Dodd: Does Alex have the right to homeschool?
Sandra Dodd: If so, why?
Virginia Warren: It's heavily overloaded ; it means a lot of different things
Sandra Dodd: If Alex moves to Germany, does she have the right to homeschool?
Virginia Warren: Freedom
Sandra Dodd: "Rights," like "freedom," is contingent on where, and when, and how, and who.
heathermbooth: Oh! I have some more phrases and "the right to" is on it!
Virginia Warren: Legal right? No.
AlexPolikowsky4: Would not have the same right if I moved to Brazil that is for sure.
Robin B.: Inalienable right? Probably not.
Sandra Dodd: If Alex's very real husband and biological father of her children Brian Polikowsky decides today that he is extremely opposed to homeschooling, Alex loses her right to homeschool right then.
Sandra Dodd: Robin, don't try to take bits of mythology to the bank.
Robin B.:
Sandra Dodd: There are no inalienable rights. And you don't want there to be
Robin B.: You're right. I don't!
Sandra Dodd: What are Charles Manson's inalienable rights?
heathermbooth: "The right to" and "deserve".
Sandra Dodd: "You deserve to be happy."
Sandra Dodd: Holly cow.
Robin B.: The word wasn't even mentioned until I moved here.
Robin B.: Eww. Says who?
Sandra Dodd: There is flag-waving mythology, and then there is logic and truth.
Sandra Dodd: Says supportive friends, "You have the right to be happy," and "You deserve a husband who will [be your fantasy ideal]."
Virginia Warren: I think "deserving" is a highly problematic concept.
Sandra Dodd: Rights within a city or club or state or family or nation are given and taken away by that same entity.
Robin B.: With friends like that....
Sandra Dodd: Me, singing: "You deserve a break today / So get out and get away / to McDonald's…"
Sandra Dodd: A Big Mac is what people deserve, if they hear that commercial.
Robin B.: Thanks. Now I want a Big Mac.
Marta Pires:
Marta Pires: Me too Robin!
AlexPolikowsky4: and I just got a message from yet another teen asking if she could come spend a couple days with us. She is 13 and a family friend. Great girl. Her father left her mother and 4 daughters 16 down to 3 for another woman. He said he had the right to be happy and leave an unhappy marriage .
Robin B.: I'm a slave to the advertising industry.
Sandra Dodd: AND if they have the money. But the song makes them think "Hey, yeah! I DO deserve…. "
Sandra Dodd: And his daughters' rights?
Virginia Warren: Where would I be if my kids had to "deserve" everything I give them?
AlexPolikowsky4: Exactly Sandra.
AlexPolikowsky4: But he had the right and deserved to be happy/
Sandra Dodd: I suppose "rights" and "deserve" have to do what that "What about ME?" and "me-time" and "mom-time."
Virginia Warren: "Deserve" implies some kind of score keeping.
Sandra Dodd: And the resentment for not getting what one deserves is the other side of that coin.
Robin B.: It think that can be tied up with religion, too. You must deserve something to get it. Through prayer or good works or obedience.
Sandra Dodd: "By grace are ye saved, and not by works, lest any man should boast" (say the Baptists, to that)
AlexPolikowsky4: Yep Robin!
Robin B.: Thinking of Judaism.
Sandra Dodd: And most Christianity, but the Baptists love that part. I different people didn't have different favorite parts, there would be just one religion.
Robin B.: I couldn't believe just how many different "Christianities" there were when I first traveled to the U.S.!
Sandra Dodd: -=-For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. -=- Ephesians 2:8-9 (so a letter from Paul to a church group in Ephesus)
Robin B.: Separating themselves from the Old Testament?
Sandra Dodd: So yeah…. Religions gets its roots all in people's beliefs about how to treat children and what they "have to" do as parents, and what endangers souls, and learning just fits itself in there wherever it can.
heathermbooth: In what context would the word "truth" be problematic?
Sandra Dodd: Or "A recent study found…"
Sandra Dodd: Most dietary claims, "truth" is going to be taken back in fifteen years.
Sandra Dodd: When a correlation is declared to be "a cause," that truth could be rescinded before long.
Sandra Dodd: The "truth" about Christopher Columbus is a problem. This year, he's evil. A hundred years ago he wasn't. In the future, it might settle into something less extreme.
Sandra Dodd: It is true that unschooling can created a peaceful home environment.
AlexPolikowsky4: and "truth" is also subjective.
Sandra Dodd: It is not true that unschooling CREATES a peaceful home environment.
Sandra Dodd: Without a qualifying word, "truth" becomes fallacy.
Sandra Dodd: it is not true that all dogs have four legs.
Sandra Dodd: And "THAT's the truth" as a response doesn't create truth.
heathermbooth: So you're saying "truth" more in the context of what someone believes not that they use the word itself in harmful ways?
Sandra Dodd: If I say "Harry Potter books SUCK," and someone says "THAT's the truth," neither of us is saying anything that's objectively valid.
Sandra Dodd: I don't know, Heather. I can't commit to either of those options.
heathermbooth:
Sandra Dodd: If the word itself is claiming something that is not true, then the use of the word should be flagged (in one's own mind, if one wants to be honestly clear and truthful).
Sandra Dodd: Few unqualified statements are going to be "true."
Sandra Dodd: Serah wants to bring up the child who called a sibling "stupid" again.
Sandra Dodd: I can't respond to side-comments very well; sorry.
Sandra Dodd: I think it's a word to be avoided and a word to be protected from.
Sandra Dodd: Some of the words we've discussed are a danger to unschooling (to understanding how learning works).
Sandra Dodd: Some are a danger to social interactions and clarity ("special needs," "deserve")
Robin B.: Sorry. Off defending the suggestion not to use "self-regulation" on Facebook.
Robin B.: Thanks, Serah.
Sandra Dodd: Some are a danger to peace (stupid")
Serah: What if the mom says Stop and at that moment the child stops.
Sandra Dodd: Then she has prevented one incident.
Serah: But it keeps happening
Sandra Dodd: Then she needs to be persuasive.
Virginia Warren: If a kid I was around were calling people stupid, I'd be wondering who was calling that kid stupid.
Serah: like all the time. How many times before it ends?
Sandra Dodd: A series of "stop" wouldn't be enough to end it.
Sandra Dodd: The mom needs to be right there as she would if that kid was hitting.
Sandra Dodd: And put her hand up and grab his hand.
Sandra Dodd: She needs to put her hand up and stop his words.
Sandra Dodd: And maybe focus just on that and nothing else for a few days.
Sandra Dodd: She could turn to the other child and say "You are not stupid."
Sandra Dodd: but then he hears the word twice, and hears his mother disputing a sibling, and that's not peace.
Robin B.: And say "I am not stupid" if the child is calling her stupid, as well.
Serah: No one calls him stupid. He's the oldest and he is treated as nice as the other kids. He has chosen to go. To school, even though the family unschools and he enjoys it there.
Sandra Dodd: If she wants peace in her home, she needs to make that a priority, and if a child has been in the habit (for fun, for humor, probably) of insulting, he could be asked to stop.
Sandra Dodd: Well you didn't say that, Serah.
Sandra Dodd: That's important.
Sandra Dodd: I would say "IF you're going to go to school, you can't bring the meanness home."
Serah: Oh?
Virginia Warren: Who knows what people are saying to him at school?
Sandra Dodd: If he likes to go to school, make that a condition. You can go to school, but you can't bring school home.
Serah: This was happening before school... Been happening for many years
Robin B.: He sounds like a pretty frustrated kid if all he can think to do is call people "stupid."
Sandra Dodd: We had a neighbor named Nick. Nick, when he was six or seven, would come over and use schoolyard insults in my back yard, so I told him (soon after I heard it) that he could come over but he couldn't be mean. I said I know kids at school say those things, and I didn't want my kids to hear them. He needed to be nice if he came over. And he was.
AlexPolikowsky4: Kids in school used stupid a lot!
Virginia Warren: That had been my observation, Alex
Sandra Dodd: Serah, I think if you go through the chat and copy the first advice I gave, I don't have better. The mom could say "These ideas get inside people and stay there. Stop saying it."
Sandra Dodd: Maybe she could make a code word with the older child, for him to stop, when she hears it.
Robin B.: I think about principles in this case, too. It's not control. It's a principle of kindness (if the family has such a thing).
Sandra Dodd: A friend of mine, when someone says something negative about a friend, says "Now say something positive about him." He does that to his children and to his students (squires, SCA/medieval-club students).
Robin B.: I like that.
Sandra Dodd: I think of it as a direct pattern of abuse. The child might be thinking "joke" but if he was hitting for fun, it wouldn't be fun for the target.
heathermbooth: I need to go get Austin his medicine. Thank you all for the chat.
Serah: Oh I like that too
heathermbooth left the chat 6 days ago
Marta Pires: Going to play a bit with my little princess now. Great chat! Thanks Sandra and Heather! Bye
Sandra Dodd: And kids will take abuse just to stay in the game. So pointing out the danger and damage (on the side, to that one child) is an important aspect of it.
Sandra Dodd: Help him see the problem.
Marta Pires left the chat 6 days ago
Jaclyn Koehl: Hope everyone has a lovely day!
Jaclyn Koehl left the chat 6 days ago
Serah: Thx everyone I will share this with her. Hopefully it will help.
Robin B.: Bye everyone. Thanks!
Robin B. left the chat 6 days ago
Serah: Bye
Jill Parmer: Thanks all.
Jill Parmer left the chat 6 days ago
Serah left the chat 6 days ago
AlexPolikowsky4: Thanks. Sorry i was so late. I was meeting my sister who come over to town and asked me to go to breakfast with her
Sandra Dodd: I don't want this to turn into one long list of forbidden words.
Sandra Dodd: That doesn't make as much sense as addressing particular situations as they come up.
Virginia Warren: My younger daughter's best friend goes to school and she comes over and tells us about her "enemies". So grateful my kids don't have enemies.
Sandra Dodd: If the big words are diminshed by being put on a list with less damaging ones, that will be a problem.
Sandra Dodd: Some children at school have abusers, and bullies, and enemies. Most have at least one of those. Some at school have zero real friends.
Sandra Dodd: But schools "advertise" it as though kids have lots of friends.
Sandra Dodd: My kids had acquaintances they didn't like as much as othes, and neighbors they played with, and some they didn't.
Sandra Dodd: It's similar, but they were shut in a room with them every day, so the problem is the lack of mobility and of power to get away.
Virginia Warren: Exactly
Sandra Dodd: I'm off to eat, straighten up a thing or two, stretch my legs.
Sandra Dodd: Bye! Thanks for coming.
