"I loved today's chat. I loved your intro to the chat. It really helped me to think about abundance in a more profound way. Another layer of the onion was peeled off today. ;)"
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More Editing, someday, most likely, to take out chit-chat, double-check links, fix typos...
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Sandra Dodd
February 11, 2016 chat on Abundance, and finances.
How much does unschooling cost?
http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcost
http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcost
Unschooled Kids and Money
http://sandradodd.com/money
http://sandradodd.com/money
Generosity
http://sandradodd.com/generosity
http://sandradodd.com/generosity
Allowance, cash and unschooling
http://sandradodd.com/math/allowance
http://sandradodd.com/math/allowance
LINKS ADDED LATER:
Material World: A Global Family Portrait, by Peter Menzel, is mentioned below. First it was a webpage project, and then it was made into a book in 1994 and the webstie was taken down. Now the photos are up in a beautiful way at the link above.
Sandra Dodd: Ten people at five minutes after!?
Sandra Dodd: Reminder to new people—the chats are public. Chat transcripts are saved. So don't confess to any crimes or write anything actionable.
Sandra Dodd: Or anything you don't want shared. That's what I really mean.
Sandra Dodd: For things people don't want shared, that's gonna cost you. http://sandradodd.com/issues/therapy
Sandra Dodd: Those people will listen to you without sharing.
Sandra Dodd: I won't. :-)
Sandra Dodd: For the abundance ideas, before we start, I want to recommend some distance.
Sandra Dodd: It's very easy to look at our children from three feet away, and wonder confusedly WHAT on EARTH we can DO about this HUGE PROBLEM.
Sandra Dodd: Looking too closely at your child is not a good perspective to consider abundance, oddly.
Sandra Dodd: Abundance is somewhat relative. At least for the parents it is.
Sandra Dodd: let me ramble a bit, please, and then we can share ideas.
Sandra Dodd: Oooh... new computer, Jill!! Nice.
Sandra Dodd: Back out, and back, in your mind, and in your knowledge, to all the ways people live that you know of.
Sandra Dodd: As much social geography and anthropology as you know, picture people in many different places.
Sandra Dodd: Picture people you know, in other cities or countries, and their houses and cars.
Sandra Dodd: Picture people you've only seen in movies, or in documentaries about the Amazon Rainforest, the Arctic (Alaska, Nunavet, Finland, Norway...)
Sandra Dodd: Whatever you know of what they're eating, wearing, playing with, doing for a iiving.... build your images.
Sandra Dodd: If you own the book "Material World" or have seen it, those images might help.
Sandra Dodd: If you haven't seen those photos, it's really a marvelous project undertaken in the 1990s to photograph families outside their homes with all their belongings arranged around them.
Marta Venturini: Sounds cool
Sandra Dodd: Picture you own upbringing and what memories you have (visual, emotional, narrative) about abundance or paucity (poorness, lack of abundance).
Sandra Dodd: THAT's where I would like this discussion to come from. A view of families in general, on earth. Not just one teeny pinhole peek into one family. There WILL be some individual stories, but tell them in as universally-applicable a way as you can. :-)
Sandra Dodd: So that people who read this later can get ideas, and so the ideas will be about people, not just about our individual children by name.
Marta Venturini joined the chat 30 hours ago
AlexP: i find that two things that create the feeling of abundance are gratitude and positiviness. Being cretive and excited about what is around helps.
Sandra Dodd: I hope anyone here who is feeling a lack of abundance will consider their situation in comparison to Syria, Afghanistan, Japan's earthquake- tsunami-damaged region,
Sandra Dodd: Sometimes the parental uptightness can prevent a feeling of abundance in the child.
Sandra Dodd: Sometimes parents are not looking farther than their bank account and how much the child seems to want. VERY short-sighted. Dangerously myopic.
Sandra Dodd: If the parent is resenting the child, the child feels that, and cannot, then be very grateful for whatever toy or extra food or extra attention the resentful parent provides.
Sandra Dodd: So I'm done with my preamble. Jump in. :-)
AlexP: A
Sandra Dodd: If people have questions, please consider all that up there first. :-)
AlexP: Sorry i did a litte ealry up there
Sandra Dodd: Surely there are children who live in an environment without a bunch of *stuff* can still feel abundance.
Sandra Dodd: And i bet we all know (or some have been) kids who were surrounded by provisions and resources and didn't feel abundance (emotionally or intellectually or in terms of choices)
AlexP: parents that cannot be grateful for what they have due to being negative and that are always complaining and/or whinning that they lack something will create an enviroment where the kids cannot feel abundance.
catiamaciel joined the chat 30 hours ago
Sandra Dodd: That's okay, Alex. You added an important thing.
Sandra Dodd: I doubt that people in a war zone feel as "creative and excited" as they would in peace and plenty. But this, I think, is crucial to unschoolers to remember: Unschooling is a luxury. It is made possible by peace and plenty.
AlexP: Or parents who are stingy with their children or afraid they will get spoiled or not learn the value of working for something . Ugh that will not create abundance.
Sandra Dodd: If a mom is fixated on whether she approves of Shopkins, or whether her son should be playing Minecraft, she's not looking at the concepts and larger factors that create security and calm around what people have.
AlexP: I can be even lack on the emotional side. Absent, disconnecte parents
Sandra Dodd: Yes. And not only will the children not feel abundance, they will see that the parents are withholding resources.
Sandra Dodd: if all we had to eat was rice here one day for some reason—just rice—how could I create some feeling of abundance with it? Let's pile up some ideas.
Sandra Dodd: I could get out whatever condiments or spices could be found.
Sandra Dodd: I could find the nicest bowls and the most fun spoons.
Sandra Dodd: We could set the table beautifullly.
ErinElizabeth: serve it in a fun form, balls of rice for example
AlexP: Omurice comes to mind!! or bibimbap (she is navy)
Sandra Dodd: If you have eggs, Alex, you're cheating.
AlexP: I would find left over veggies and create this beautiful colorful dish! Maybe with an egg if I had it!
AlexP: Fried rice with whatever you have!!
Sandra Dodd: I could make small servings, and let the have extra butter (if having butter isn't cheating... I don't know. I'm the one who made it up :-) )
AlexP: Or some cheese melted on it!
AlexP: Butter in rice is delicious!
Sandra Dodd: Then they could have seconds! Instead of one big serving, a small one. If they finish that one, and get MORE, that's 1) finished and 2) more.
catiamaciel: i could go out to pick edible plants in the woods and mix it to the rice. green edible plants thst we find in the woods, with our hands and eyes and that will give us iron, to be strong like Iron Man. i will do that to make a super special white rice. (good night :))
Sandra Dodd: Alex, your "rice only" cupboard is like a big full refrigerator—that's more abundance than the exercise should allow.
AlexP: Okay I love rice with anything so I would be super happy with rice!
Sandra Dodd: Nice, Catia—a super-hero tie-in adventure. :-)
AlexP: can I get some
AlexP: oops I saw Catia went where I was going!
Jill Parmer: You could eat the rice with a fork or your fingers or with chopsticks, like all the different ways people eat it around the world.
Sandra Dodd: Abundance can begin with a parental optimism and joy.
Sylvia Woodman: I've read that with Persian style rice some sticks to the bottom deliberately and that it's a treat to get some of the crunchy bits off the bottom of the pan.
AlexP: YES Sandra! I think so!
Marta Venturini: Catia's son, Sebastiao, loves super heroes! ;)
AlexP: Sure personality plays a part but if all you see is negativism and unhappines and discontent then how would your children feel? Parents complains make a big statment
Sandra Dodd: Helping a hungry child eat more slowly, if rice was all you had, could be nice, too. Maybe talking about how glad you are to have that rice and how hard it can be to grow and harvest rice.
Sylvia Woodman: I think you could make a three course meal out of rice. Rice balls with cheese for a first course, somemething like fried rice or rice casserole for a second course, and then rice pudding for dessert.
Jill Parmer: Socarrat. That the Spanish word for the bottom layer of golden carmelized rice of paella.
Sandra Dodd: Jill—good idea, about eating it different ways.
Sandra Dodd: GOod idea—save some rice and put milk and sugar in it.
AlexP: rice pyu
Jill Parmer: If you eat fast or slowly, the taste would change.
Sandra Dodd: That's a Great Depression trick, for feeding kids in the morning. Raisins if you have them, and milk and sugar, cooked slowly.
AlexP: argh sorry keyboard is miniscule! Rice pudding is yummy but you need milk and rice
Sylvia Woodman: When I was a kid I was interested in how food changed in flavor the longer I chewed it.
Sandra Dodd: I used to do that in class. Two for one—sneak food, and chew it so it will last long, and think about the change of flavor or texture.
Sylvia Woodman: Maybe if your family has a history of eating traditional dishes with rice you could tell stories to your kids about those times while you ate.
AlexP: Cold, warm and hot ! That changes taste and texture too
Sandra Dodd: I didn't know until this last year that Koreans use steel chopsticks.
Sylvia Woodman: Not rice, but we have had conversations about pancakes in our house. All the different kinds of pancakes in the world. How just about every culture and tradition has some kind of pancake.
AlexP: and long spoons for rice! Not chopsticks for rice!
Sandra Dodd: Japanese use fancy ones of plastic or lacquered wood, with designs and inlays. I know because when my hair was long and thicker, I would put it in a bun with Japanes chopsticks. :-)
AlexP: I still use them for my hair!
Parvine: Sylvia, he crunchy bottom of rice pot is always made with butter and sometimes onion rings or bread added making that crunchy part more filling.
Sylvia Woodman: Yum!
Jill Parmer: If you ground dry rice, perhaps you could make crackers.
Sandra Dodd: What about abundance of attention? Maybe even in a natural disaster (flood, earthquake) a parent could find way to make a child feel safe and secure.
AlexP: I want to eat some rice balls now! Thank you for making me want rice! Going to put a pot on the stove right now!
catiamaciel: 2 days ago we went to a chinese restaurant to celebrate the chinese new year. it was a super special dinner, in a super simple and not expensive restaurant. My son (6 years old) learned a few words in chinese, and was in a super festive mood. Is favourite food is chinese rice and chinese pasta, we eats that almost every day, wish means any pasta or any rice, on the wook, mixed with everything we can imagine or have at hand. He believes he is super special because he always gets to choose and eat is special chinese food.
Jill Parmer: A parent could hold a child and speak comfortingly to them. Take moments to help out with even one small thing. I imagine that could help in a natural disaster; holding and care and some action.
Marta Venturini: :)
Sylvia Woodman: Before we get a big storm (Snow/Hurricane) I try to plan some stuff to do in case we lose power. Blanket forts, food that we can cook over our outdoor fire pit, card games, crafts, new candy to eat....
Sandra Dodd: Holly had a quote on her facebook page today. I don't know the person who's being quoted, but it's pretty nice:
AlexP: Calm physical touch and words go a long way.
Sandra Dodd: "When little people are overwhelmed by big emotions, it's our job to share our calm, not to join their chaos." —L.R. Knost
AlexP: nice
Sandra Dodd: Part of abundance, for unschooling, I think, should be an abundance of attention and patience. It's not always possible, but it's possible to notice when we've forgoten, and move back toward that.
catiamaciel: not to get involved in the caos, not to create it with my worries, it's still a big leaning process for me. I tend to panic and get overwhelmed, one of my main jobs as a mother is to learn how to deal with my own big emotions to be able to crate a safe life to my family.
Parvine: i remember during the war in Lebanon, my mother and I sleeping with few family members in a row on mattresses on the floor. Despite the uncertainty and chaos on the outside ,our little corner next to each other always felt safe and warm
Sandra Dodd: That's very sweet, Parvine. How old were you for those memories?
Marta Venturini: Same here, Cátia, as you know.
Parvine: Around 9.
Marta Venturini: That must have been scary, Parvine.
Sandra Dodd: On a much smaller scale, when Kirby and his fiancee and her daughter were in a snowstorm, they made it to Santa Rosa, New Mexico (on their way from Austin to Albuquerque) and ended up there for two days. They had a corner in a hallway in a small convention center one night. They were given one blanket, and they had some in the car. But they found things for Devyn to do, and she found other kids to play with the next morning. The adults were frightened, more than she was. They tried not to share their stress with her.
Sandra Dodd: The next night (the night that meant they would miss getting to work), they were lucky to get a motel room—better heat, nicer beds, a shower—for which they were charged three times the normal price.
Sandra Dodd: I'm glad Kirby could afford it. :-/ But still... they knew that it was better than any alternatives, given that the freeway was closed all the way across the state.
AlexP: wow! Parents keeping calm!
Sandra Dodd: Cyrus Sorooshian, Pam's husband, saw his family scatter over Europe and the U.S., from Iran in the 1970's. When the government was overthrown, anyone who wasn't Muslim was threatened (or worse). They were Bahai.
Sandra Dodd: Perspective!
Sandra Dodd: His house in a peaceful neighborhood in southern California might (maybe, possibly) seem more luxurious to him than it does to his wife and children. :-)
Parvine: From my perspective at the start of war it meant no school, new adventurous ways of daily life and started collecting shrapnel. I was very aware of other peoples fears but an abundance of extra attention from my mother during that period has also left me with plenty of warm memories as well.
Sandra Dodd: Those things can be used generously and peacefully, or in a bad way.
Sandra Dodd: Collecting shrapnel in a box, not in your body, I assume, there.
Sandra Dodd: When vietnam veterans talk about "collecting shrapnel"... kinda different.
Sandra Dodd: I started... Those things can be used generously and peacefully, or in a bad way.
Sandra Dodd: My mom wasn't generous.
catiamaciel: when in a complicated situation i always think about Benigni''s, life is beautiful, movie and ask "how can i turn this into a game?" that question turns my brain to focus on a solution and that helps my own worries or fears.
Sandra Dodd: She would get mad at us about not being grateful for electricity and running water and stuff.
Sandra Dodd: It's tricky, about providing abundance.
Sandra Dodd: I think it's why looking too closely at the child ignores the conditions that might help the most—a parent who is aclm and hopeful and prepared to adjust input and experience so that the child feels less needy
Sandra Dodd: It doesn't happen between the checkbook and the Lego catalog. It's bigger than that.
Sandra Dodd: calm (a parent who is calm and hopeful)
Parvine: My family fled Iran in the late 1800's to the Middle East as they were Bahais... They fled two other countries over next three generations due to war. My children have known peace and stability :)
Sandra Dodd: That's harsh, Parvine.
ErinElizabeth: Part of providing abundance is not sending the bill for it, expectations of acknowledgment and gratitude can get in the way and diminish it
Sandra Dodd: Good point, ErinElizabeth.
Amber: could you explain a little bit about looking too closely at the child? I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
Sandra Dodd: Parvine, three flights from countries in four generations makes me think of the video about the effect of stress on the second generation.
Sandra Dodd
Sandra Dodd: You guys don't need to look at that to continue with the chat, but I'd like for it to be in the transcript.
Sandra Dodd: It's at the bottom of my page on negativity, as of last week. http://sandradodd.com/negativity
Marta Venturini: It's a great video. I really liked it.
Sandra Dodd: Amber, if you go to Save/Print, and to page 1/1 (you might need to change the number) and read the begininng of the chat, it's there.
Sandra Dodd: For people on something other than a real computer, do the screen options show on the left?
Sandra Dodd: Oh, you WERE in the chat up there. Never mind.
ErinElizabeth: there's a button on the top left
Parvine: Stress is passed on generation to generation at it sure was within my family. It can become a way of life but a conscious effort can be made to turn things round.
Sandra Dodd: If you look at YOUR CHILD in the second and think the needs of that moment are the only thing between your family and contentment, your perspective will be more like desperation and less like calm and abundance on the part of the parent.
Marta Venturini: Yes, they do, Sandra.
Sandra Dodd: Can someone else explain? Maybe my example isn't the best.
AlexP: yes I can see the options in the tablet and phone
AlexP: just on the left where it saves Save/Print
Marta Venturini joined the chat 29 hours ago
Sandra Dodd: If someone can see how to provide abundance if all they have is rice, it seems it would be easier to do it with a variety of food, and a grocery store and money.
Amber: Yes I was here/there earlier, but I scrolled back anyway ... but okay yes I think I know what you mean now. Thank you.
Marta Venturini: (I'm on a computer again; Bruno fixed Conchinha's laptop)
ErinElizabeth: when you're focused too closely you can't see the big picture, it's easy to get lost in the little details of a bad moment and not see all the wonderful life around it
Sandra Dodd: If a parent can remind herself that she's not in a war zone, not stuck in the corner of a convention center, then maybe she can provide more calm.
Sandra Dodd: Yes, that. Thanks, Erin Elizabeth.
Sandra Dodd: Should we talk about costs?
Amber: Well, unless you use the "think of people in the war zone" as a reason why you and your family should restrict yourselves, clean your plate, not waste food, etc.
Sandra Dodd: How much unschooling costs?
Sandra Dodd: That's why I said those things can be used negatively. "You should be grateful that we have a toilet that flushes—in my day we had an outhouse and had to go outside in the snow.)
Sandra Dodd: Nobody's recommending restrictions or shaming, Amber, right?
Sandra Dodd: I never ever once said a parent should tell a child to think of people in a war zone.
AlexP: We joke here about the old days!
Amber: Right no. I know. I was just thinking that big picture thinking could get in the way, or go in the wrong direction.
AlexP: It is the parent who needs to think about it! So they can value what they have and be grateful for it.
catiamaciel: what about our own feeling of lacking money, or comfort? my child thinks we are very, very rich, because he can have all he wants, he lives a happy and comfortable life, Me and my husband, we tend to worrie about what we dont have like a good car, or that we rent instead of buying, or that we can't go out to dinner as much as we would like, and the list goes on and on. We really have an hasr time it it comes to be happy with what whe have.
Sandra Dodd: It's come up in several stories lately about cellphones. Stories of just not so long ago are going along, and then younger kids are wondering why they didn't just call for help. :-)
AlexP: I am just happy knowing we have health , food and a warm home.
catiamaciel: (sorry for the typos. )
AlexP: and a loving caring partner
Jill Parmer: This is not to be used as reasons to restrict or control your kids or family. It's for a mental exercise that you might do in your head to see abundance and not the very small viewpoint between you and your kid.
Sandra Dodd: The big picture can only get in the way or go the wrong direction if the parent has no direction of her own. When the intent is to provide abundance, other options won't be chosen
JennyC joined the chat 29 hours ago
ErinElizabeth: switching from a mindset of not enough money to finding abundance in what we have has been hard for me
Jill Parmer: So many choices you have their, Catiamaciel.
Sandra Dodd: "I was just thinking that big picture thinking..." Don't call it "big picture thinking." It's perspective. It's inducing gratitude and abundance in the parent, first, so that she can remember to look at her surroundings as a rich place. If not, she could infuse the moment with panicky resentment. No abundance is going to come of that.
Sandra Dodd: It's going to be hard for anyone ErinElizabeth. That's why we're trying to help.
AlexP: Catia being more positive and content ! More gratitude. Do I want a better newer car? Absolutely!!! But I have a car! it is working right now! ( it was not 2 week ago) My kid are happy!
JennyC: Whatever you do, don't make yourself a victim of your own circumstances!
Jill Parmer: Contribute a little money here and there to an envelope, for something fun.
AlexP: Yes Jenny!
Sandra Dodd: I guess what you do is not pass the fears on to children.
Sandra Dodd: I want to talk about the cost of unschooling a bit.
AlexP: A parent can lovingly look at their happy healthy child and bask in that beauty!!
Jill Parmer: Comfort: make soup, snuggle up, hold hands, breathe,
Marta Venturini: :)
JennyC: Sometimes it feels overwhelming to be poor and want to meet the needs of your children. There are so many ways to find abundance. You just have to look for it instead of looking at what is lacking.
Sandra Dodd: Whether somone rents or buys or had a car or not or has a single income or not, school was going to cost some money.
AlexP: Yes perspective. There are wars, and ilnesses and we have it better
Sandra Dodd: Even the no-tuition public school is going to have some sort of uniform or dress code that's going to cost some money.
Sandra Dodd: They'll provide a list of stuff that must be brought to school.
JennyC: Or fundraisers or school lunches, or after school sports, or band
Sandra Dodd: There will be $5 here, $10 there, for special projects or supplies or outings.
regan: If you go back to work while your children are in school, then you need to pay for day-camp during school vacation weeks.
JennyC: No matter what, kids cost money
AlexP: I live in a small rich town and there are kids that take a back pack full or hygene products and food every weekend home ( donated) because they would not have food otherwise at home to eat
AlexP: I know because we have voluteered to pack them and more. I have been to the food shelter a few times picking up foord for the kids.
JennyC: Once I was able to see that perspective, that kids cost money, it was easier to see how we could choose to spend that money differently than if we'd chosen school
JennyC: We have volunteered at food banks AND have been recipients if them
catiamaciel: in Portugal, public school is free and a family with our income will recieve all the books, supplies and food for free. to us, unschooling is an expensive option but i always try to tell myself that we did not choose to homeschool because it would be less expensive than school.
JennyC joined the chat 29 hours ago
Sandra Dodd: I know a lot about the schools nowadays. :-)
JennyC: In that case your time is what is valuable. You get to spend time together instead of time apart
AlexP: Being creative goes a long way!
Marta Venturini: And that is priceless, Jenny :)
Sandra Dodd: Devyn gets free breakfast and lunch, at school. But at the beginning of the year the list of things they were required to bring was about $40 worth of things like glue, tape, tissues, I don't remember what all. I nearly picked that list up yesterday morning, seriously, just to re-read and be appalled by. It's on a rack where I sign her in every morning.
Sylvia Woodman: I think that is the very heart of abundance, Jenny! The idea that "I get to do something" Rather than "I have to" or "I'm forced to"
Sandra Dodd: And those things go to the teacher who stores them and brings them out over the year.
JennyC: That's true Alex, I'm surprised sometimes by the lack of creativity in other unschooling parents
AlexP: I have learned to fix things and will try fixing ( Did my washing machine twice last year). Find bargains, creat alernatives, save money, make money ( selling - little jobs)
Sylvia Woodman: I think being creative is like a muscle - the more you exercise it the stronger it gets. Sometimes people need a little help figuring out how to "get it moving" so to speak.
Sandra Dodd: **At the very heart of abundance is the idea that "I get to do something" rather than "I have to" or "I'm forced to."***
JennyC: Sandra, here, schools even list what brand must be chosen and it's usually the more expensive one
Sandra Dodd: Sylvia, approve that edit, please.
Sandra Dodd: I want to quote you
Sylvia Woodman: What?
Sylvia Woodman: Sure.
Sandra Dodd: I rephrased what you wrote *** that thing up there***
Sylvia Woodman: Got it.
Sandra Dodd: You wrote " I think that is the very heart of abundance, Jenny! The idea that "I get to do something" Rather than "I have to" or "I'm forced to""
Parvine: And we can go to scrap store and buy things when we want them, when we need them and as we go along.
catiamaciel: you are richer now Alex, in experience and knowledge
Sandra Dodd: Okay?
Sylvia Woodman: Yes. :)
Sandra Dodd: Thank you
Robin B. joined the chat 29 hours ago
Sandra Dodd: Those scrap stores are great, in England. Is that were you saw one, Parvine?
Sandra Dodd: and there was one in Oakland, California.
Parvine: Yes! They are a wonderful places :)
Sandra Dodd: One of the places I'm speaking in August is in a scrap store near Bradford, in West Yorkshire
catiamaciel: JennyC, can you give examples of creativity in unschooling parents? Or, the lack of it if?
Sandra Dodd: That seems too awkward a question.
Sandra Dodd: Maybe jenny can answer it.
Sandra Dodd: But some families just say "I can't.
Sandra Dodd: "It can't be done."
Sandra Dodd: "We can't afford it."
Sandra Dodd: They lock themselves into "no" and don't look around for the "yes"
JennyC: I'm not sure how to explain it but I've seen its opposite
Jill Parmer: The rice exercise at the beginning of this chat is an example of creativy.
Amber: my impression of "how much does unschooling cost?" is "as much as your budget allows" ... yes? no? maybe?
Sandra Dodd: Flexibilty. Resourcefulness
Jill Parmer: *creativity
Jill Parmer: After the first way you think of something. Try some other perspectives, see what you come up with.
JennyC: I've seen it when a family is really struggling financially and what really set me apart from them, wasn't more money, it was more about my attitude of finding solutions to problems that required money
AlexP: some are due to lack of deschooling. The child loves to dance and the first thing they think of is getting the child into a dance class. many little kds love to dance. I cleared up a room and had music and we danced for ours. I bought instruments ( used and cheap) and we playes with them instead of going to little kids music classses . we tried those and they were terrible in my opinion. Kids needed to move from one thing to another even if what they wanted was something else. Nope. Not good for one year olds or three year olds!
Sandra Dodd: We weren't unschooling yet, but when Kirby was little we were really poor. I had broken my leg the year before, we didn't have insurance, Keith had been a student and then graduated from college but didn't have a job yet and I got pregnant.
Sandra Dodd: We made do with thrift-store things, hand-me-downs, and toys we made or were given.
JennyC: When you are a family choosing between cat food and toilet paper, with the last $5, you are hard pressed to find a way to make that extra thing happen for a kid
AlexP: Ubnschooling costs time, resourcefulness , creativity, parent involment and attention and the hability to look for the yes . That on top of a safe home environment.
Sandra Dodd: As he got a little older, I made puzzles with popsicle sticks ("crafts sticks")—taped a set together flat, like a raft (however many make a square) with masking tape, painted a simple picture on the other side, and took the tape off.
JennyC: We've been in that position several times. It's not optimal or ideal for unschooling. First is to find ways to get out of that cycle. Then you find ways to do whatever it is the kid wants to do
Sandra Dodd: For Marty, I was selling Discovery Toys and getting fancy European toys cheap or free.
AlexP: There has never been a time as good as now to look for creative things to do with kids for nothing!! Tons of ideas online!! With all kids of things that colst little to nothing!!
Sandra Dodd: -=-my impression of "how much does unschooling cost?" is "as much as your budget allows" ... yes? no? maybe?-=-
Sandra Dodd: Is your impression based on having gone to that link and read?
JennyC: Parks are free. Building forts and watching movies is free. Using recyclables to make things is free.
AlexP: Even if you are not creative there are many creative people sharing things online! Just look it up!
Sandra Dodd: I don't mind discussing it, but I don't want to start from zero, from scratch, with it.
Sandra Dodd: Unschooling will not be free. It doesn't have to cost a fortune. That's what we're talking about. :-)
JennyC: The one thing that one of my kids wanted was to dye hair and cut hair. Hair dye is expensive. For a while, she'd do other people's hair and request that they buy the products, which they usually left with us. Over time we accumulated a lot. When we had a tiny bit extra, we'd buy more.
Sandra Dodd: And, more than that, how to help a child feel abundance instead of fear, sorrow, poverty, paucity, rejection.
JennyC: Yes very much Sandra!
Sandra Dodd: -=-There has never been a time as good as now to look for creative things to do with kids for nothing!! Tons of ideas online!! With all kids of things that colst little to nothing!!-=-
JennyC: That kills unschooling way more than lack of money!
Sandra Dodd: Yes and in some places, things like Craig's list
Sandra Dodd: or those scrap stores!
Sandra Dodd: Thrift stores/charity shops.
Sandra Dodd: Flea market / car boot sales
Sandra Dodd: Garage sales / tag sales
ErinElizabeth: Freecycle in't everywhere, but it can be great
Sandra Dodd: Yes.
JennyC: We still buy all our clothes from thrift stores, aside from an occasional special purchase
Sandra Dodd: But with facebook (another resource) putting the word out that you need a bed, or a lamp, or some paints or something might get you an offer from local friends.
MaryinCO: Freecycle is great. My son was interested in learning to tie flys. Lots of people have hobbies that they have given up and would love to pass on their supplies to someone who wants to try that hobby.
AlexP: Parents please dont complain about your car or this or that your stove is cracked on top! Not that you dont sait it at all but state it once but dont keep ragging on it about poor me my car is old and my stove is craked! You know what ? they still work! Woohoo!
Sylvia Woodman: Do you see that in your feed Alex?
AlexP: YES!! I put the word out in my facebook that my dog gate was broken (at the rescue I volunteer for, and I picked up two gates for free yesterday! )
Sandra Dodd: Yes. Kids can worry when parents seem cranky
catiamaciel: the house where i live was fournished with all sort of things my friends gave us via facebook. it was a very emotional time for me, getting all this things, i felt so much love and abundance.
Sandra Dodd: Asking relatives for help makes sense, too.
AlexP: Sylvia I see that in my feed, in person too.
Sandra Dodd: Furniture, pans, small appliances—older relatives might have extras
Sandra Dodd: They might even give you money, if you ask. :-)
Parvine: and plenty of local groups for selling, buying, or swap.
AlexP: My kids worry if i am cranky or dad is cranky. Gigi gets really emotional
ErinElizabeth: lots of church groups gather household resources to give out for free
Sandra Dodd: Yesterday Kirby was over giving me $120 he owed me, and Marty happened to walk in. I handed him $20. Marty's unemployed now (full-time college).
AlexP: Even some shelters and rescues will give out pet food if you need them.
Sandra Dodd: I gave the rest of it to Keith. :-)
Sylvia Woodman: And then did Keith take you out to dinner?
Sandra Dodd: Uh... no.
Marta Venturini: To Garduño's? :)
Sandra Dodd: He would've, if I'd asked. :-)
Sylvia Woodman: :)
Sandra Dodd: We have fifteen minutes.
Sandra Dodd: Questions!? What did we not talk about that people wanted us to look at?
AlexP: I also like to give things that are used but in good condition sometimes even if I could make some money selling them. It makes me feel good with pay it forward. It may sound selfish and it is a little.
Sandra Dodd: AND what topics would be good for the next chat or two?
JennyC: We joined girl scouts just so we could travel for free and do cool things like stay in mountain cabins
Sandra Dodd: I put the transcripts from the last two (which were pretty clean as they were) here: http://chattranscripts.blogspot.com
catiamaciel: my therapist said once that the problem is not if i'm poor or not, the problem the preconception i have about the meaning of being poor.
Amber: I feel like I'm in a minority. I have an abundance of resources, and no need to budget my spending, and worry about - well, I guess about what message I'm sending to my kid.
Robin B.: ~ Me and my husband, we tend to worry about what we dont have like a good car, or that we rent instead of buying, or that we can't go out to dinner as much as we would like, and the list goes on and on. ~
I've been reading back and this stood out, catiamaciel. Your son is happy, thinking you're nicely well-off, but you and your husband are thinking what seem to me to be old thoughts. Buying isn't necessarily better than renting. A new car isn't necessarily better than an old one. So it seems to me that you have unexamined issues around "stuff."
Robin B.: Oh, ha, catiamaciel. I just saw your post.
Sandra Dodd: I really don't think it will send a child a negative message.
Sandra Dodd: They don't know about the different incomes and situations families have.
Sandra Dodd: Some families have no mortgage payments or rent. That's a huge luxury.
Jill Parmer: Our dump has a building where people can get stuff for free, unused portions of things, like paint.
Sandra Dodd: Some have reasons to travel, and that's big, too.
JennyC: I grew up very poor but didn't know we were
Robin B.: Amber, I am in the same position. We live very comfortably. And we try to be generous to others, which has rubbed off on our daughter.
Sandra Dodd: So if you want to feel better about spending more on your child than you know that others could afford, this might help:
Amber: I guess it'll be bound to come up eventually? some item that is big ticket enough to have to discuss budgeting and what not.
Sandra Dodd: Think of the learning that will be coming from it.
JennyC: My parents prioritized family outings over physical goods. We didn't have loads of toys or fancy new things and toys.
Virginia W: I grew up poor and my parents never stopped talking about it. It's not good.
Sandra Dodd: Think of how much it would cost to go to an expensive private school. :-)
Amber: Oh I absolutely have internalized that message - one school I looked at was over $500 a month and I immediately thought of what an amazing playroom I could make with that money
JennyC: My youngest was considering a summer camp that is expensive. I was hoping we wouldn't have to come up with funds for it.
Robin B.: I spoke about supporting your child's interests at a conference and was taken to task about the abundance of "stuff" we had (I had photos of the things we did, places we went, the plushies my daughter has). Was I to feel guilty that we could afford things? I wasn't sure.
JennyC: Instead we are saving up for a gaming system. We have an old wii and a PS2
Sandra Dodd: Jihong has money, and still finds ways to save lots—she finds $400 trans-atlantic ship passages and such.
JennyC: 3 yrs ago, even that wouldn't have been possible
Sandra Dodd: She can shop and cook for nearly nothing, for having grown up poor in China.
Marta Venturini: I've felt guilty, Robin. I still do sometimes. :/
Robin B.: My point was to show how lots of families could do it (I used photos of families that I knew had money issues to show that it could be done), but it came down to, I felt, that I did too much.
Sandra Dodd: I wish you guys wouldn't feel guilty!
Sandra Dodd: What if you had withheld from your kids just to make my kids feel better!? It would NOT have worked. :-) Seriously.
JennyC: You shouldn't feel guilty!
Robin B.: I don't feel guilty. I feel overwhelmingly fortunate that I can do what I do.
AlexP: if one feels guilty then do something. Donate, volunteer.
Amber: I guess I only feel guilty when I sense that other mom friends of mine see my home and think they could not choose unschooling for themselves
Robin B.: That they were saying "I did too much."
AlexP: Give back, help friends, pass it forward but first start by beeing generous to your children.
Marta Venturini: Yes, Alex.
Robin B.: I didn't feel that way at all. I was pissed that someone would suggest that I did.
Sandra Dodd: That happened with me, too, Amber, but not about money. About courage and resourcefulness.
JennyC: I think you do as much as you possibly can for your family AND others.
Sylvia Woodman: I'm reading it a different way, Sandra. The AUDIENCE was telling Robin she was wrong and should feed guilty for giving Senna too much.
Sandra Dodd: They thought they couldn't because they didn't see all the connections and opportunities that I saw.
Robin B.: Yes, that's what I meant to say. Thanks, Sylvia!
Amber: Sandra I recently read an old thread where you talked about a friend whose home situation made you so sad ... I was curious what happened to that situation
Sandra Dodd: But that's what the discussions and webpages are for—to provide stepping stones to courage and resourcefulness.
Robin B.: Or that "well, you have money and one child. Of course, you're going to be able to support her interests."
catiamaciel: to donate and volunteer is a good way to feel abundance.
Bea in Sydney joined the chat 28 hours ago
Sylvia Woodman: Bea!!!!
Sandra Dodd: Bea, what DAY IS IT?
Sandra Dodd: I mean, Hell, Bea in Sydney! Welcome to the last four minutes of the chat.
Robin B.: Hi Bea!!!
Bea in Sydney: Hi! It was quiet on Facebook, and then it occured to me that youguys might be in the chat
AlexP: Bea!!!!!!
Sandra Dodd: So..
Sandra Dodd: So..
Marta Venturini: Hehehehe
Sandra Dodd: This is a really good question.
Bea in Sydney: it's Thursday morning here. I had given up on chats, thinking it was too early for me to join, but I guess it's not :-)
Sylvia Woodman: Yay!
Sandra Dodd: How can we (or should we?) help people feel better about unschooling when they say, "Yeah, but you have XXXXX and I don't have squat, so you can unschool but I can't"?
Sylvia Woodman: We are talking about abundance.
Bea in Sydney: I was up an hour ago, I could have joined. I will next week if you have a chat :-)
Sandra Dodd: It's Thursday? I thought it was Friday in Australia already.
Marta Venturini: :)
Sandra Dodd: So confusing.
AlexP: yay!! My pot of rice is ready! Will eat rice after this!
Bea in Sydney: sorry, it's Friday, I'm the one who is confused :-)
Parvine: Robin this reminds me of those who say: it is ok for you to opt out of school! You have no worries.
Sylvia Woodman: Is it in an Instant Pot, Alex?
Marta Venturini: I want some of that rice of yours, Alex! ;)
Robin B.: I don't know if we can, Sandra, but I'd like to try. Some folks make up their minds, though.
Sandra Dodd: Some people tell others "Anyone can unschool," but I don't think it's true.
JennyC: I think if a parent is too negative in that direction, then the answer should be, put your kid in school until you can do better
AlexP: Sylvia did not have the money for it yet. Next month hopefully!
Sandra Dodd: Sometimes I feel like saying "You're right. I can, and you can't." It seems so cold-hearted, but how long do they want me to yammer on about how they could manage to do it, so that they can say "Yeah, I didn't really want to. I think I'll go and spend $600 on a curriculum" or some nonsense.
AlexP: Brian told me to get my pot but I decided to wait to make sure. Some big bills this month
Sylvia Woodman: I kind of relate it to the women I talk to at LLL. You can't kind of sort of try to unschool. You have to decide to do it and really put in the effort to do it well.
Robin B.: I would like to help them see that it's not necessarily about money. It's about time and support and engagement. Sometimes that comes with costs, for sure.
Jill Parmer: One could say, 'yeah, usually you can't, if you think you can't.'
Robin B.: There is that, Jill!!
Jill Parmer: You've already built yourself too big a road block.
Robin B.: As Henry Ford said, "If you think you can or you think you can't, you're right."
Parvine: Unschooling is more about a person's mindset than what we have or do not have.
Robin B.: Yes, Parvine.
JennyC: I've so far, seen enough crappy unschooling, that I can honestly say that some people shouldn't unschool
Robin B.: Indeed. Me, too.
AlexP: Some people should not unschool at all.
Bea in Sydney: A member on the unschooling in French group says her son likes doing only activities that cost money... and she can't afford any right now, so he spends time at home on his ipad, but she wants to limit that because too much ipad is bad for him
Jill Parmer: Gotta go sew some more.! Thanks all. (making a quilt, will post pics. :-) )
JennyC: And one family for sure it was about lack of finances combined with a negative attitude
Marta Venturini: Bye Jill!
AlexP: And that kid would be better in school probably
Jill Parmer left the chat 28 hours ago
Robin B.: bye, Jill!
Sandra Dodd: What a shame that they can afford an iPad and the internet and she doesn't see that as a magical portal to the whole world in every language, with moving pictures, games and music.
AlexP: Bye H
AlexP: Jill
Sylvia Woodman: Every family has limits. Some financial. Some physical. Some have to do with location. But you have the choice to change the direction of your gaze. Where is your focus. Can you pivot and see things from a different angle?
Sandra Dodd: THANK YOU all for being here, very much. I'm going to stick around a while.
AlexP: YES!!!;
Bea in Sydney: I gave her links to the physicality page, and the things to do in winter page... hopefully she'll relax and see it's ok
JennyC: Yep! So true Sandra!
Parvine: Who can Unschool? always a good topic and reminder of what it is all about.
Sandra Dodd: I appreciate all the ideas and input.
Marta Venturini: What about some ideas for topics for next week?
AlexP: Bye Going to make some food for Gigi and eat some rice!!
Robin B.: Bye, Alex!
Sandra Dodd: I love those little podcasts Amy Childs did.
JennyC: I'm trying to get out the door to get to a meetup, so I'll say goodbye all!
Virginia W: Those are great
MaryinCO: I have been listening to those podcasts this week.
Sandra Dodd: http://unschoolingsupport.com/who-can-un...
Sandra Dodd: Bye, Jenny
Bea in Sydney: bye guys, I'll write on my calendar to be here next week, as early as I can :-)
JennyC: I did a podcast about exactly this topic!
Sandra Dodd: Oh, right.
Sandra Dodd: Topics
Sandra Dodd: Jenny you have your own podcasts?
Sandra Dodd: WHERE?
JennyC: No, Amy Child's
Sukayna joined the chat 28 hours ago
JennyC: I did one for her :)
Robin B.: Oh, something a non-unschooler brought up in the Facebook group. She wanted to see homeschooling of all kinds in action and what the "theories" looked like in practice.
Bea in Sydney: oh, no, can't make it next week. Week after :-)
Sandra Dodd: Then, the link above will have The Voice of Jenny Cyphers.
Marta Venturini: :)
Sandra Dodd: Oh, she wanted to DISCUSS it. She didn't want to read something static.
Sandra Dodd: She wanted her own voice yammering away
Sylvia Woodman: I believe the phrase should be The Dulcet Tones of Jenny Cyphers!
Sandra Dodd: Yes
Sukayna: Hi everyone....sorry to join at the end here and trying to catch up :)
Sandra Dodd: So topic for next time?
Robin B.: I was thinking some people talk a good game, but you see that they don't get it at all, when you see them in person.
JennyC: What? No! It was fun though.
Sandra Dodd: I'll stay here another while.
Robin B.: I don't know where I'm going with this. It made me think there might be a topic in there somewhere.
MaryinCO: Topic suggestion: peaceful parenting
Sandra Dodd: if people want to talk about just anything.
Robin B.: Walking the talk, maybe?
Sandra Dodd: Okay, Mary, you win.
Sandra Dodd: Peaceful parenting
catiamaciel: thank you for this chat.
Marta Venturini: Parvine suggested "Who can unschool?"
Sandra Dodd: Parvine loses!
JennyC: The hot button issue right now is the use of media.... although I do get bored of discussing it
Marta Venturini: Hehehehehe
Sandra Dodd: Or Parvine's can be time after next.
JennyC: Cool, I like peaceful parenting!
Parvine: peaceful parenting sounds good for next week :)
Marta Venturini: Me too, Jenny.
JennyC: And now I'm really going :)
Robin B.: Sounds good to me, too!
Robin B.: Bye, Jenny!
Robin B.: I'm off, as well. Take care, all
Robin B. left the chat 28 hours ago
MaryinCO: Yes, Parvine's for the following time would be great. Who can unschool? sounds good too!
JennyC left the chat 28 hours ago
Sandra Dodd: Okay. Feb 18, Peaceful parenting
Sandra Dodd: Feb 25, Who can Unschool?
Sandra Dodd: March 3 uses of the media.
Sandra Dodd: The saddest thing for me is a family that can't afford an iPad, though.
MaryinCO: Looking forward to next week!
Sandra Dodd: I will say that a few years ago when iPads were new, new
MaryinCO left the chat 28 hours ago
Sukayna: We found a way to afford several...it wasnt so hard
Sukayna: We made it a priority and looked for deals
Sandra Dodd: I got a message from someone who only lives 20 miles from me, writing to say she would like to come to my symposium in Albuquerque, but wanted me to waive their fees because her family was too poor.
Sandra Dodd: At the bottom of the message, it said "sent from my iPad"
catiamaciel: or a family that can afford an ipad but does not want to have it in name of the wco-minimalist-waldorf-life they dream and still think they unschool.
Sandra Dodd: I didn't even have an iPad.
Sandra Dodd: :-)
_______________________
From about here down, the chat time was over, and it turned to questions about my influences and inspirations, and why I keep helping people.
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From about here down, the chat time was over, and it turned to questions about my influences and inspirations, and why I keep helping people.
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Amber: Sandra am I imagining it or did I see you write somewhere that you wouldn't give a young child an ipad?
Sandra Dodd: I don't think I did.
Bea in Sydney: They make some really great ipad covers for little kids nowadays
Amber: Okay. I'll go see if I can figure out what I'm thinking of. It was a discussion about a parent worried about a child watching an ipad and being slumped over
Bea in Sydney: all covered in foam
Sandra Dodd: Was it about someone saying a kid threw an iPad and I said don't let him do that? Or about someone saying her kid wouldn't "let" her plug it in?
Bea in Sydney: oh, ok, I thought because the child would break it :-)
Marta Venturini: Bruno needs his laptop back, so he can work a bit before we're off to bed. Sara and her kids spent a few days here with us and left today. I'm feeling tired. ;) See you all next week!
Sandra Dodd: I don't think I would give a child an iPad to own as his own toy.
Bea in Sydney: (was responding to Amber's comment)
Sandra Dodd: I would let a child use one and take care of it myself.
Marta Venturini: Bye everyone!
Sukayna: They are pretty sturdy ours get dropped alot!
Sandra Dodd: And now that I had my $400 iPhone back to the six-year-old in the carseat behind me sometimes, I wonder what I would have done with three little kids and one iPhone and one iPad.
Sukayna: I hang out with younger visitors when they want to use ours so far only I have cracked a screen
Sandra Dodd: hand (And now that I hand my $400 iPhone back to the six-year-old..)
Parvine: Time for me to go ,thank you all. See you next week!
Sandra Dodd: You could e-mail me or message, if you find it, Amber, or ask in the discussion.
Sandra Dodd: Bye, Parvine!
Sandra Dodd: Thanks for the stories
Amber: okay will do, thank you
Bea in Sydney: I'm going to go and read the chat from the beginning, and hopefully I can join the chat in two weeks :-) (And Sandra: it is Friday here, not Thursday, I was the one who was confused. :-)
Bea in Sydney: bye!
Sandra Dodd: Thanks, Bea.
Sandra Dodd: I thought the world changed rotation!
Sandra Dodd: Bea if you have things to add to the chat, leave them here and they'll be in the chat transcript.
Amber: can I ask an off topic question?
Amber: I've read some of the stories of your childhood, Sandra, and it seems like your mom was not the role model for your parenting - I am curious what resources you credit for helping you think more clearly and make better parenting decisions
Sandra Dodd: La Leche League
Sandra Dodd: Adult Children of Alcoholics
Sandra Dodd: the better example of my dad and his relatives, partly
Sandra Dodd: partly, I wanted to be a teacher since I went to first grade and met Miss Tomlinson, my very tall and very patient and soft-spoken teacher.
Sandra Dodd: And I paid attention all through school to how teachers did what they were doing, who was good at it, who was like by which kinds of kids, and disliked by which kinds of kids.
Sandra Dodd: I liked visiting other families and seeing how the parents and kids interacted.
Sandra Dodd: I saw Holly do that too, when she was a kid. Probably still.
Sukayna: Cool how kindness from adults can really impact a child in unexpected ways...
Sandra Dodd: She would come back and report what rules and oddities a family had, or what cool arrangements of the house, or how unfairly one kid was made to do laundry or clean something.
Sandra Dodd: Just yesterday someone from my hometown, from my teen years, was talking to me on the phone. She lives in Virginia. I had mentioned her in a podcast interview and we were talking about that and some of those stories.
Sandra Dodd: She said my mom was always so fun.
Sandra Dodd: LOTS of my friends said your mom is fun, your mom is cool, I wish my mom was more like your mom.
Sandra Dodd: But my mom was a mean drunk who was really unhappy, but they didn't see that.
Sandra Dodd: So I saw what some of my friends' parents did that was nice, and not so nice. And most of them had stories of it not being as fun after the company left, too.
Sandra Dodd: But I collected good examples and bad examples.
Sandra Dodd: in my heart. :-)
Sandra Dodd: But once I had kids, the array of examples opened way up.
Sandra Dodd: One of the greatest lab situations of my life was a La Leche League-based babysitting co-op I was invited to join even though I wasn't a leader. Most of them were leaders, trading childcare while they ran meetings.
Sandra Dodd: There were 20 families at one time, and usually at last 12.
Sandra Dodd: I knew all their kids when they were apart from the family, and when they were with the family.
Sandra Dodd: They all knew my kids both ways, too.
Sandra Dodd: My kids knew their houses. :-)
Sandra Dodd: In those families were four homeschooling families.
Sandra Dodd: Two families were unschoolers.
Sandra Dodd: That was like a gift from God not just for us, but for families I shared with from then to now.
Sandra Dodd: I started off with a LOT of experience with unscholing families, and homeschooling families, and the famiiles whose LLL attachment-parented kids were sent to school at four, five, six...
Sandra Dodd: Is anyone still here who wants me to write more?
Sandra Dodd: :-)
Sukayna: I am but I did not want to interrupt :)
Amber: I was reading :)
ErinElizabeth: I love "listening" to you talk :)
Amber: I mean reading as you wrote
Sukayna: Yep we are all enthralled :D
Virginia W: :)
Sandra Dodd: What else should I write, then? Ask me anything. If it's too dangerous or tacky, I'll remove it from the transcript. :-)
Sandra Dodd: Amber, I have a story for you.
Sandra Dodd: When Keith and I met I had a (fairly) good job and he was younger and in school, and then did minimum wage jobs
ErinElizabeth: I would like to hear about how things were for Keith with early unschooling, was he eager, reluctant?
Sandra Dodd: He was calmly accepting.
Sandra Dodd: He didn't get it, and sometimes was irritating because of that, but not too bad.
Sandra Dodd: Because I had been a teacher and was reading lots of current stuff, and growing without schooling magazine and all, and because he also knew those families from the babysitting co-op, he got it.
Sandra Dodd: And trusted that I got it a little more.
Sandra Dodd: He was really good with it within a few years.
Sandra Dodd: Sukayna asked: How did you develop the patience to deal with those people who refuse to play nicely at Radical Unschooling Info or Always learning? Sometimes I wonder how you stay so calm
Sandra Dodd: Behind the scenes I'm less calm, sometimes.
Sukayna: Sorry to hear that
Sandra Dodd: Sometimes I rant to the administrators in a side message to get it out of me, to blow off steam.
Sukayna: Hear that
Sandra Dodd: But mostly I'm calm because I've seen it 40 times, 100 time.
Sandra Dodd: And sometimes I'm short-tempered because it's the third in two days.
Sukayna: Sometimes I get angry for you...but then I can choose to go away, whereas you usually stay
Amber: I think I can see your moments when you're not calm - I'm not impressed by the calm or not. I'm impressed by the commitment to responding to all us newbies
Sukayna: And I wish for you to have less negativity from strangers when you are not being paid or benefitting from these encounters
Sandra Dodd: I wrote about being patient here: http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully
Sukayna: Yes, but adults with kids are not kids :-)
Amber: I was listening to you on Pam's podcast but haven't finished, so I haven't heard your answer yet to the question as to why you keep doing it
Amber: But the principles still apply with adults. Sandra wrote recently "be sweet and positive to everyone involved" and I take that to mean adults too.
Sandra Dodd: That did not work, for the quote:
Sukayna: I just mean I usually expect more from adults in a forum, or group
Sandra Dodd: That did not work, for the quote:
Sandra Dodd: http://justaddlightandstir.blogspot.com/...
Sandra Dodd: That's what I was looking for.
Sukayna: I just mean I usually expect more from adults in a forum, or group
Sukayna: But you are right! The principles still apply
Sukayna: But you are right! The principles still apply
Sylvia Woodman: Wow I stepped away for a bit and just came back! Are you doing a double session today, Sandra?
Sandra Dodd: Sylvia... kind of. :-)
Sandra Dodd: We're in the truth-or-dare portion
Sandra Dodd: But Keith wants to take me to lunch soon. He's printing out tax forms.
Sandra Dodd: So...
Sandra Dodd: I want to tell about patience.
Sandra Dodd: When I was in my 20's and people would criticize me (not about unschooling then but whatever) I would get diarrhea. Runs. Scared.
Sandra Dodd: I would want to talk to them until they understood me and liked me
Sandra Dodd: In my 30's, I'd get pissed off, and write to them and state my case.
Sandra Dodd: In my 40's, and with kids, then, and more practice, I started being able to handle lots of pressure and crap.
Sandra Dodd: I built up to it over the years.
Sandra Dodd: And although you're right, Sukayna, that adults SHOULD be more mature, all kinds of people come there.
Sukayna: Yeah I can see that in myself as well- priorities and choosing when to invest
Sandra Dodd: Some come with the expectation that they can treat me like an elected official, or like a salesmand, or like a teacher. I see those aspects coming out.
Sandra Dodd: Or like someone hired to help them.
Sandra Dodd: Sometimes I can feel them wanting to ask to speak to my supervisor, or thinking they can get me fired. :-)
Sandra Dodd: Surprise!
Sukayna: :))
Sandra Dodd: Or like they'll take their "business" elsewhere.
Sandra Dodd: Okay!
Sandra Dodd: But then there are also people who are just scared, and worried, and those I have more sympathy for.
Sandra Dodd: Or they want to ask a question, but their tools are limited. They've never thought so much about learning as the others in the discussion have, and the questions are awkward.
Sandra Dodd: And those I have sympathy for, if they don't get hostile and pissy
Sandra Dodd: -=-I think I can see your moments when you're not calm - I'm not impressed by the calm or not. I'm impressed by the commitment to responding to all us newbies-=-
Sandra Dodd: Thanks, Amber.
Amber: I think I went thru a similar arc when I first found your writing - being shocked - and then listening to your voice somewhere helped - and only after lurking and reading for over a year am I starting to get to a place where I feel comfortable asking questions
Sukayna: I admire the way you quietly and patiently set people straight, but i don't like to think about you having more negativity in your life, thats why i asked...
Sandra Dodd: Oh. Thanks, Sukayna. There have been two times I became distressed about unschooling problems. One involved plagiarism and bullshit, from two directions, in the same month.
Sandra Dodd: Amber, there's an odd tussle in the discussions sometimes because people who know me in person (and half the people in the chat today have been to my house or I've been to theirs) say I'm funny and nice.
Sandra Dodd: And people who only see me in writing say I'm a hateful power-tripping bitch (or some version of that0.
Sandra Dodd: Yet I write the way I talk, so how can that BE!??
Amber: because they are "reading" your tone through their own filters
Sandra Dodd: Because people don't hear the writing in my voice, and don't know (yet, sometimes) WHY I'm writing what I'm writing.
Sandra Dodd: Right
Sukayna: Whoa! But you aren't that hard to warm up to....it took a short time to adjust to the different style of the groups, etc....but that is sort of forewarned in pinned posts guidelines so not a huge shock
Amber: Thank you soooooo much for hosting chats again. Looking forward to future topics.
Sukayna: Enjoy your lunch! Thanks for the chat!
Sandra Dodd: There ARE warnings, aren't there, Sukayna? Joyce makes people agree to the possibility of being shocked or offended (or something)
Sandra Dodd: before she lets them in to Always Learning. She's the gate keeper. :-)
Amber: it sometimes help reading through other people struggling ... not sure how to explain why
Amber: *helps me
Sandra Dodd: But as Keith says, people assume it's like a 40-page Apple-terms agreement and they just say yeah, yeah, and then later WHAT!?
Amber: *helps me
Sandra Dodd: But as Keith says, people assume it's like a 40-page Apple-terms agreement and they just say yeah, yeah, and then later WHAT!?
Sukayna: I remember being mildly upset but already knowing this was the best deal around so i decided to just lurk :-)
Sukayna: To lurk and see if i was the problem.....turns out I was the one who needed to adjust
Sukayna: To lurk and see if i was the problem.....turns out I was the one who needed to adjust
Amber: I'm sure you're not the first nor last, Sukayna!
Amber: I'm in the same boat - lots of adjusting still in progress
Sandra Dodd: I'm glad to have new people being very analytical of what, who and why, as you're being today.
Sandra Dodd: Guess why!??
Sandra Dodd: :-)
Sandra Dodd: Because that's where the new voices come from who will help others in a couple of years—from people who ask the more important kinds of questions.
Sandra Dodd: I hope you can come next week.
Sandra Dodd: "Peaceful Parenting."
Sandra Dodd: OH! And subscribe to the chat note blog for announcements. It's working again, but I deleted the old feed and made a new one.
Sukayna: :) of course. I will try to come again next week- it is nearly midnight over here and the internet has been strange so I will definitely try!
Sandra Dodd: To leave the room gracefully, type slash and bye /bye
Sandra Dodd: by itself on a line
/bye
/bye
