Privilege

http://chatnotes-unschooling.blogspot.pt/2014/08/august-6-chat-on-privilege.html

From Sandra's notes for this chat:

"What about "Privilege"—the advantages some people have?

I have been privileged to get to go to conferences by being a speaker. I know some families can't ever afford a conference. Others can afford any conference they want. How important is that? What can people who can't go to conferences do instead?

There are other levels of privilege, in families, in homes, in abilities and resources. Think about that, and come and share ideas."

Virginia Warren joined the chat

Marta Pires joined the chat

Rippy joined the chat 

Virginia Warren joined the chat 

Jaclyn Koehl joined the chat 

Celeste joined the chat 

Capn Franko joined the chat 

Marta Pires: Hi everyone!

PamelaCorkey joined the chat 

Capn Franko: Good (Seattle) morning.

Bernadette joined the chat 

Bernadette: Hello

PamelaCorkey: Howdy, y'all.

Sandra Dodd joined the chat 

Sandra Dodd: I know a parlor game I was hoping to use for a bit of this. We learned it from an old book, and it was called "deprivation." But I can't find a description of it online and I don't remember which book it's in.

Sandra Dodd: I've played it a lot, though, and so I'm guessing it has other names.

Sandra Dodd: People have tokens (toothpicks, match-sticks, poker chips, something) and the goal is to be the most deprived person.

heathermbooth joined the chat

Sandra Dodd: Each person names something they think they have sadly lacked or missed out on, that other people DO have. Anyone with the advantage has to pay them a token.

Sandra Dodd: After a few rounds, someone is bankrupt and that person is the most privileged, and the person with the most token is the most deprived.

Sandra Dodd: Thank you, west-coast folks, for coming here so early. 

Sandra Dodd: And hello to the rest of you, too.

Marta Pires: 

Karen James joined the chat

Virginia Warren: Hi

Jaclyn Koehl: Good morning, I slept in and it's still not early. 

Sandra Dodd: It can be good for conversation starting, or learning more trivia about people, but for today we could go with things that make unschooling richer or easier.

Sandra Dodd: And if people want to try to keep score somehow that's fine, but we could just consider it demo rounds.

Sandra Dodd: Because we have more than ten people, we can go ahead with real discussion. 

Sandra Dodd: But does anyone know a name for a game like that?

PamelaCorkey: I found this: "Most Deprived -- Give each person the same amount of M&Ms (try ten). Start by stating something you’ve never done that you think everyone else has done. You might say, “I’ve never had a birthday party,” or some other true statement about yourself that you think everyone else has surely done. Then, everyone who has had a birthday party pays you an M&M. You pay everyone who has not had a party. Keep playing until everyone has a turn or until someone runs out of M&Ms. Obviously the idea is to come up with the most M&Ms and be the most deprived."

Capn Franko: New one for me.

Sandra Dodd: That's it.

Sandra Dodd: So I'll go first, and knowing Frank will need to "pay me," I will say "I have never been snorkeling."

Caren joined the chat

Sandra Dodd: And then we learn which of the rest of you have.

Sandra Dodd: So put Y if you have (or yes) I guess, and N if you haven't.

Virginia Warren: I have to pay up.

Celeste: Me too.

Virginia Warren: Y

PamelaCorkey: N

Caren: N

Rippy: Y

Jaclyn Koehl: y

Karen James: Y

Sandra Dodd: We can't tell what order we're sitting in. And I don't know if the list of whose online shows the same for everyone.

Marta Pires: N

Sandra Dodd: Do you see Karen, Virginia, Caren, Heather, frank?

Virginia Warren: Yes

Karen James: Yes

Marta Pires: Yes

Rippy: Yes

Celeste: Yup

Caren: Yes

Sandra Dodd: Snorkeling was about half and half. Karen, do you have one to play?

PamelaCorkey: yes

Capn Franko: Y

Karen James: Hmm.

Sandra Dodd: Something you have not had/done/been that you think some (or lots, or all) of us have.

Karen James: I've never been to Africa.

Sandra Dodd: Not feeling guilty about resting or having down days.

Sandra Dodd: DOH! It filled in automatically.

Karen James: Oh.

Virginia Warren: N

Sandra Dodd: N

Caren: N

Capn Franko: N

PamelaCorkey: N

Jaclyn Koehl: n

Celeste: N

Rippy: Y

Marta Pires: N

Karen James: Okay. That wasn't a good one, I think.

Karen James: 

Sandra Dodd: You only got one, but you got one. 

Sandra Dodd: I was invited to South Africa and we were halfway planning it, but the other mom got involved in volunteer work in SE Asia.

heathermbooth: N

Sandra Dodd: Virginia, play or if you don't want to, pass.

Virginia Warren: I have never been to Europe

Karen James: Y

heathermbooth: Y

PamelaCorkey: Y

Celeste: N

Caren: N

Rippy: Y

Jaclyn Koehl: y

Marta Pires: Y 

Capn Franko: Y

Sandra Dodd: Yes. 

Sandra Dodd: Pile of imaginary tokens for Virginia!

Sandra Dodd: Caren?

Virginia Warren: Woo!

Caren: I do not have a desktop or laptop computer.

Sandra Dodd: (Though asking with at least two people who LIVE in Europe here is unnatural for the game.  That doesn't happen in person much.)

heathermbooth: Y

Capn Franko: y

Karen James: Y

PamelaCorkey: Y

Marta Pires: Y

Rippy: Y

Celeste: Y

Sandra Dodd: Caren: GET ONE. I hear my website is crap on a phone.

Jaclyn Koehl: Y

Sandra Dodd: Y

Bernadette: Y to both of the last two.

Sandra Dodd: Heather.

Virginia Warren: Y

heathermbooth: I've never spoken at a conference.

Caren: I have a tablet, and am using Evan's laptop now - he finally let me have a profile!

Capn Franko: N

Sandra Dodd: Y

Karen James: N

Virginia Warren: N

Rippy: Y

Caren: Y

Jaclyn Koehl: Y

PamelaCorkey: N

Sandra Dodd: (Frank, not even on a panel?)

Marta Pires: Y

Bernadette: N

Capn Franko: Ah, ok then. Y for me.

Celeste: Does giving game demos count as speaking at a conference?

Sandra Dodd: Maybe it counts. 

Celeste: M 

Sandra Dodd: Okay, then. A tablet is almost a laptop.

Sandra Dodd: Heather do you have one?

heathermbooth: Yes. I think I voted.

Sandra Dodd: Your turn for a play, though, I mean.

heathermbooth: I just did. Never spoken at a conference. That was me.

Sandra Dodd: Doh. Sorry.

heathermbooth: 

Sandra Dodd: Frank… Do you have any deprivation?

Caren: It's harder to think without a full keyboard - I need to order a bluetooth keyboard, I think. Once our current financial crisis has eased.

Capn Franko: I have never given birth. (Too much of a cheat?) (grin)

heathermbooth: Y

Virginia Warren: Haha

Sandra Dodd: Cheating is part of the game. 

Sandra Dodd: Y

Bernadette: YYYYY

Virginia Warren: Y

Karen James: Y

Rippy: Y

Marta Pires: Y

PamelaCorkey: Y

Jaclyn Koehl: Y

Celeste: Y

Caren: Y 

heathermbooth: Wait! I had a C-section. Does that count as "given birth"?

Sandra Dodd: If Heather has a loophole, I'm out too.

Caren: Bernadette, 

Marta Pires: (me too, good question Heather) 

Capn Franko: Cheating on my cheat!

Celeste: Haha

heathermbooth: 

Marta Pires: 

Sandra Dodd: What was the literary technicality? Of woman borne?

Sandra Dodd: Well anyway, Frank cleans up.

Sandra Dodd: Pamela.

PamelaCorkey: I have never had a spouse.

Capn Franko: Y

Sandra Dodd: Y (2)

Rippy: Y

heathermbooth: Y

Karen James: Y

Celeste: Y

Marta Pires: Y

Jaclyn Koehl: Y

Caren: Y - "had"

Bernadette: Y

Virginia Warren: Y

Sandra Dodd: I hope if you want one you get one someday, Pamela. Somebody fun with lots of extra cash and two houses. 

PamelaCorkey: Woo-hoo! Yet another benefit of single life!!!

PamelaCorkey: I love being single, but marriage would be a cool adventure, too.

Celeste: I've never owned a house.

Sandra Dodd: And if you don't want one… good. 

Sandra Dodd: Y (community property with Keith, anyway—half a house)

Caren: N

Capn Franko: Y

Marta Pires: Y

Virginia Warren: You (but I envy you)

Rippy: Y

Karen James: Y

PamelaCorkey: Y

Bernadette: Our house is in my husband's name, is that a loophole?

heathermbooth: Y, same as Sandra.

Sandra Dodd: Yeah, home ownership isn't always glorious.

Jaclyn Koehl: Y

Sandra Dodd: Depends whether you want to get rid of your tokens or not, Bernadette. 

Sandra Dodd: Good one, Celeste.

Sandra Dodd: Jaclyn?

Jaclyn Koehl: I've never been skiing.

Virginia Warren: N

Celeste: Y

Karen James: Y

Caren: N

Capn Franko: Y, water and snow.

Rippy: Y

Sandra Dodd: Y (doh; I sucked at it and never went back)

heathermbooth: We owned a house in Texas, but it was in Monty's name. Once we got married, we both automatically became owners. Texas law thingy. 

Virginia Warren: I almost played that my turn.

Bernadette: N

heathermbooth: N

Sandra Dodd: Texas law does THAT!? Holy crap, Texas law is weird.

Marta Pires: Y, water.

Sandra Dodd: "With my earthly good I thee endow" doesn't apply in New Mexico.

PamelaCorkey: Y

Sandra Dodd: Jaclyn didn't specify water or snow, and (through broad cheatery) wins more. 

Sandra Dodd: "With my earthly goods I thee endow" is in English common law I think, and New Mexico laws were based on Spain's, somewhat, as it turns out, propertywise.

Sandra Dodd: Rippy, if you have one, go!

Rippy: I have never had a pet.

Sandra Dodd: Y

Jaclyn Koehl: Y

Marta Pires: Y

Karen James: Y

Caren: YYY

Celeste: Y

Bernadette: Y

Virginia Warren: Y

Capn Franko: Y

heathermbooth: I was common law married with Austin's bio dad. I needed to divorce him even though we never married in the traditional sense to sort out child support and visitation through the court. Texas again.

heathermbooth: Y

PamelaCorkey: Y

Sandra Dodd: I wonder if lawyers in Texas are just doing the tall-tales bluff version of precedent law!?

Sandra Dodd: 

Sandra Dodd: I've learned some freakish things through Kirby's girlfriend's recent legal entanglements about her daughter.

heathermbooth: It was a judge who told us.

JoanneWilma joined the chat

Sandra Dodd: Marta! What are you deprived about? You've been to the US, you've water skied, been to Europe (every day lately), married...

Caren: Oh! I forgot I have to go to work in a bit. (Used to be later) Thanks for hosting, Sandra!

Marta Pires: I've never had a son. 

heathermbooth: Told us we needed to get divorced. We had a joint checking, were living together for over a year and had a child. That was enough for a Texas judge to tell us we needed to go through divorce proceedings. Fun stuff.

Sandra Dodd: Thanks for that cool post I could use as a sample, Caren!! 

Bernadette: Y

Virginia Warren: N

Rippy: Y

Karen James: Y

heathermbooth: Y

Sandra Dodd: Makes sense, Heather.

Sandra Dodd: YY

Capn Franko: N

Sandra Dodd: Bernadette, did you play one?

Sandra Dodd: Is there anyone who didn't go?

Bernadette: No.

Sandra Dodd: Play if you want to. Be right back.

Bernadette: I've never spent a year in school.

Jaclyn Koehl: N

Celeste: Y

Jaclyn Koehl: Y

Karen James: A whole year?

heathermbooth: Y

Virginia Warren: N

Capn Franko: Y

Bernadette: A school year.

Rippy: Y

Karen James: Y 

Marta Pires: Y

Virginia Warren: What?

Virginia Warren: We're talking about our kids or ourselves?

Rippy: Ourselves.

Bernadette: Ourselves.

Sandra Dodd: Y

Sandra Dodd: Did you not go at all, or just didn't finish a year?

Virginia Warren: Whoops, I got confused.

Sandra Dodd: Are you a gypsy/traveler?

Bernadette: I spent a few weeks when I was 7, and when I was 9.

Sandra Dodd: We had kids at our school who had never been in a full year. One was a gypsy boy.

Virginia Warren: Y

Bernadette: I was home educated.

Sandra Dodd: Were you ill or were your parents progressive or both or what?

Bernadette: We lived in Africa and Saudi Arabia and boarding schools were too expensive.

Sandra Dodd: OH wow. So there WAS one point on the Africa question? 

Karen James: Yay!

Sandra Dodd: I'm afraid of Africa. I'm afraid of Liberia. The ghosts of American sins.

Karen James: I've wanted to go since I was a child. I will some day.

Sandra Dodd: Afraid of Arabic. Afraid of Morocco. Afraid of lions.

Bernadette: I lived in Liberia.

Sandra Dodd: What were your parents doing that they lived there!?

Jaclyn Koehl: Oops, I answered no to Africa, but I've been to Tunisia... so I have to change to Y.

Sandra Dodd: 

Bernadette: Daddy taught electrical engineering at the Technical College there.

Sandra Dodd: Oh!

Sandra Dodd: So...

Sandra Dodd: Privilege.

Sandra Dodd: Some unschoolers get grumpy because some other unschoolers have lots of privileges.

Sandra Dodd: And I wanted to look at that.

Sandra Dodd: The other day in a presentation at the HSC conference the conversation was about what can inhibit learning, and we talked about fear and insecurity (in children).

Sandra Dodd: Mostly talking about keeping them sheltered from scary news stories and images.

Sandra Dodd: In there somewhere I said something like "Everyone here can afford to be at a conference, but there are unschooling families who will never be able to afford a conference."

Sandra Dodd: A woman who was arguing with me about just about everything said "Well I'm not one of those people."

Sandra Dodd: Had it been in writing, I would have raced to say "Not one of WHICH people?" but Joyce would already have asked, and someone else, too.

heathermbooth: I was in that session and was surprised (and irritated) at how vested some people were in the idea that their children NEEDED to know about the horrors of the world in order to become good citizens.

Sandra Dodd: I didn't ask. I wanted her to back down from defending exposing children to current events.

Sandra Dodd: But she was AT a conference (merrily disrupting a discussion) so I guess she meant she was NOT one of those people who couldn't afford to go to a conference.

Virginia Warren: What was her point?

Sandra Dodd: Her point was… that… I sucked and she didn't?

Karen James: I wonder what parents hope to gain by exposing children to things over which their family has little control?

Sandra Dodd: She was quick to be defensive even when it didn't make sense.

Capn Franko: That's certainly always the underlying point I think.

Karen James: Control in their own home?

Sandra Dodd: I think so, Frank. Her bristles were up and she bristled.

heathermbooth: Some people think it is admirable to be poor and suffer and don't want to align themselves with those of us who can afford to go to conferences and stay at hotels. Even though they are one of "us".

Sandra Dodd: She said "I used to be a social studies teacher and…" or "I am a social studies teacher" maybe.

ColleenP joined the chat 

Sandra Dodd: Yes, I don't get that.

Sandra Dodd: It would be nice if anyone who wanted to travel could do so.

Sandra Dodd: And some families have more money than they seem to because one of the parents is thrifty and saving, which is good.

Sandra Dodd: Some might be going when they can't really afford to.

Sandra Dodd: That was just one point among many.

Sandra Dodd: So I guess there are LOTS of advantages (privileges) parents can provide to their children that aren't money.

Sandra Dodd: I mean money can lead to divorce, and the children aren't advantaged by that.

Sandra Dodd: I'm still not breathing quite smoothly after hearing about some of the real estate prices in the Bay Area. 

Karen James: One privilege is temporary freedom from the knowledge of all of the terrible things that are happening in the world.

Sandra Dodd: Our BIG house with a fair sized and interesting yard (four yards, kind of, because we're angly on a wedge-shaped lot) was less than 200,000.

Sandra Dodd: I said $140 the other day but I think it might have been $160,000.

Capn Franko: Location, location, location.

Marta Pires: Indeed, Karen. 

Sandra Dodd: I don't think a garage for a car in San Francisco would go for that. 

Celeste: That's why we rent.

Sandra Dodd: Yes. Peace is part privilege and part diligence.

Virginia Warren: That's about the same as my house.

heathermbooth: So, if you love the Bay Area and can afford to live own a home here that's a privilege most people don't have.

Sandra Dodd: Yes.

Sandra Dodd: And we were privileged to find a big house not so expensive so our kids weren't crowded.

heathermbooth: A privilege most people in the area don't even have!

Sandra Dodd: Not where you live OR where I live. Big houses are awesome, for people who are content not to vacuum and mop all the time. 

Sandra Dodd: There is an advantage to having a parent or two who can cook.

Sandra Dodd: I'm not a great cook, but I got better over the years.

Karen James: I feel privileged to have so much time to spend with Ethan. Even if ours was a tiny house, and I still had this time, I would feel quite blessed.

Sandra Dodd: Much of our cooking stuff has been used, thrift store stuff, but we've made some great things. 

heathermbooth: We're privileged in that we can afford to decide we can't afford to stay here forever and can move. I remember driving through Eunice New Mexico where some of Monty's family lived. Looking around it was clear most of the people there couldn't afford to go very far out of town even if they wanted to.

Jaclyn Koehl: I always thought that the word privilege held the connotation that one had a benefit or possession that one hadn't earned, or had been a special grant of right by someone else. It seems to me that having the means, or making particular purchases a priority, or staying home with children instead of working, is a whole different thing. There are a lot of choices.

Sandra Dodd: Keith's brother lived in Eunice for a while!! We went there for his wedding.

Bernadette: We could get a much bigger house if we moved to a cheaper area, but we're in walking distance of town, and the train to London, and several large parks and playgrounds, swapping one kind of privilege for another.

Sandra Dodd: Eunice is not a nice town, is it? They moved to Elephant Butte later. Not really a town at all.

Sandra Dodd: Having choices is a privilege.

Virginia Warren: The root of the word is "private law."

Sandra Dodd: Here's my contrast: Being in a war zone. Being in a famine area. Being in abject poverty.

Sandra Dodd: Compared to those things, we are privileged. It only takes a big change in weather, politics or an attack to change it.

Sandra Dodd: We can't "decide" not to be in a war zone.

heathermbooth: Eunice is not nice at all. It smells horrible of oil. I had a headache the whole time. His family is really nice though!  Lot of people do not have nice in laws. I feel fortunate that Monty's family is so kind.

Sandra Dodd: If Keith had not been willing to be the sole provider, I would not have had "the privilege" of staying home with my kids. Keith's agreement and ability to support us made that possible. So I didn't "earn" it.

Virginia Warren: Likewise.

Sandra Dodd: When he met me I had a better job than he had. The assumption might have been that we would both work, forever, until retirement.

Marta Pires: Same here, Sandra.

Rippy: I feel privileged that we can (sort of easily) move somewhere else if homeschooling becomes illegal over here.

Sandra Dodd: People can get sick or injured. It's good fortune (privilege? luck? chance?) that I'm walking and alive, I suppose. So my children are privileged still to have their parents living. They didn't earn it.

Virginia Warren: It took me a while to stop getting my back up when people would exclaim that I was "so lucky" to get to stay home with my kids.

Bernadette: I'm privileged to live in a country with free healthcare.

Sandra Dodd: N

Sandra Dodd: (Handing Bernadette a token… thought that was a "privation" not a "deprivation" )

Sandra Dodd: Privilege comes first, and then choices made within one's circumstances.

ColleenP: We live in a safe area, with the option to homeschool our child (or to send him to school), with job opportunities and parks to play in and no violence or crime to speak of - lots and lots of privilege compared to how a lot of the world lives, for sure.

Sandra Dodd: Imagine an unschooling family with privileges we've talked about. One parent with a lucrative career, a house they're not crowed in, mom get to stay home (wants to, and others involved agree and appreciate it). They're not watching the news much. 

Bernadette: It's a privilege to be allowed to make choices, to live where the law allows you to choose how to bring up your children.

Sandra Dodd: Yes it is.

Virginia Warren: Don't have to imagine. 

Sandra Dodd: Well then imagine what that family could do to screw up unschooling.

heathermbooth: We've never lived in an area where Austin couldn't get the medical care he needed. He was on dialysis at 7 months and had a kidney transplant before he was 3 years old. A lot of places in the world could not have done that for him.

Sandra Dodd: So also… privileged to live when the technology existed, and WHERE.

Sandra Dodd: And we're all privileged to live when we can have an online chat. 

heathermbooth: Yes!

Karen James: 

Sandra Dodd: In real time (though we have to do all this typing), with people from Europe and north America all at the same time.

Marta Pires: Yes, Sandra!

Marta Pires: So cool!

Capn Franko: I love living in the future.

Sandra Dodd: The way someone can negate all their privilege (whatever it might be) is to whine and wing and not appreciate it!!

heathermbooth: If a mother is more interested in being righteous than providing a calm and peaceful home that can screw up unschooling.

Sandra Dodd: A car is a happier conveyance if the owners and drivers like it and are appreciative that it runs.

Bernadette: I'm not only using my computer for this but three other members of my family are using their own computers to talk to friends around the world, right now, and we have an internet connection which lets us.

Sandra Dodd

Yes.
I'm SURE someone who has a gold mercedes with real leather seats is, somewhere, today, pissy about wanting a newer one, or a better sort of car.

Sandra Dodd: And I KNOW that there are people who have a little Ford who smile when they see it and are happy that it's not wrecked or broken down.

Sandra Dodd

But…
If the Mercedes owner is grateful and jazzed about her car

Sandra Dodd: And the Ford owner is whiney and pissy...

Bernadette: Keeping the plastic covering on the seats because the 'new look' is more important than enjoying the leather.

Sandra Dodd: What do their children get out of it?

Karen James: You know, this has been good for me. I was feeling restless a bit. Like I'm not contributing enough to the world around me. The people around me. I get feeling a bit down when I feel like I can't make a difference. I forget sometimes what I *do* have, and what I *can* offer.

Karen James: Thank you.

Sandra Dodd

Karen, I hope you will go to Maine and help people there. 
Just seeing confident unschoolers helps people who are iffy about really making changes in their beliefs and behaviors.

Rippy: It's a privilege to be clear headed about your priorities. I once met a mom who was feeling hesitant about leaving her baby for the weekend with a babysitter because she wanted to go to a party in London of friends that were not particularly close. She was afraid if she didn't go, the invitations would stop coming 

JoanneWilma: Hard to listen to people complain about their lack of privilege when they have tons more than you. I am grateful I can though and still be happy with what I have. 

Sandra Dodd

Rippy…
Go to London from the Netherlands, or from Canada?  Big difference.

Bernadette: We're the poor relatives in our family, I think, but we seem to enjoy our lives more than most of our siblings. I'm sure it's a privilege to be able to feel that way.

Rippy: Leiden to London - only a 40 minute flight . Several a day.

Sandra Dodd: OR maybe that one's a decision, Bernadette. 

Sandra Dodd: If by whatever combination of small adjustments someone can have a positive attitude, and gratitude, and sense of abundance, THAT makes children's lives better no matter what their objective resources are.

Sandra Dodd: And someone with a ton of money, house, car, time can still have children who feel crowded, worried and ignored.

Sandra Dodd

And speaking of me pressuring Karen to come to Maine in September…
Although I know some of you can't even consider going because it might be across an ocean (from most of us) or you have lots of young children (Bernadette)… Rippy and Marta are running a symposium in May in Portugal.

Sandra Dodd: And if any unschoolers could get to that it would be great.

Rippy: Sandra, you wrote earlier that "Some unschoolers get grumpy because some other unschoolers have lots of privileges." But anyone who has " a positive attitude, and gratitude, and sense of abundance" is hugely privileged. And with unschooling, you learn to nurture those things in yourself, so more privilege. 

Sandra Dodd: There is some sort of critical mass thing about having several successful unschoolers in one place at the same time.

Sandra Dodd: If those who are confident and dedicated outnumber those who are skittish and nervous, a kind of physical calm can be pulled down around the whole group.

Marta Pires: And if Jihong and Julie Daniel come too, it'll be even better! 

Rippy: I'm working on Julie and Marta is working on Jihong, I believe 

Rippy: Ha Marta!

Capn Franko: Speaking as an introvert, I find that group energy wonderful. It's kinda interesting.

Marta Pires: Hehehe Rippy

Sandra Dodd: What's your website link, please?

ColleenP: Maine will be our first unschooling conference, and though I too am a definite introvert, I'm looking forward to being at one and seeing what it's like, for sure!

JoanneWilma: I've been wanting to ask about that with kids. I know it's been discussed many times. When we can't do things like go to the huge new water park in Vegas or to the premier of Dr. Who, I still have trouble explaining that without saying we cannot afford it? Usually happens after I have used up all my other tools. I don't want them to feel like they are not privileged.

Marta Pires: http://europeanunschoolingsymposium2015....

Sandra Dodd: I don't know, Joanne. There's no great answer for that.

Robin B. joined the chat

Jill Parmer joined the chat

Rippy: Joanne, we didn't have a lot of money when we first started unschooling (still don't) and I would say 'let's save up for something special' and do one thing.

Rippy: And I kept our calendar full of options (free, cheap ones) that were varied and interesting.

Rippy: There was a sense of abundance because the kids could look at the calendar and see that they could go see a puppet show or go to the beach or go to story hour at the library.

Sandra Dodd: Some things are worth borrowing money for.

Sandra Dodd: Or asking relatives to help with, maybe.

Rippy: Sometimes they chose just to stay home and be together, but just having options listed on our family calendar of places we could go (filled with diligent research I did on websites and community newspapers on what was being offered for free) made them feel better.

Bernadette: My children know we can't afford a lot of things, and why, but it doesn't stop us planning with them how to get things and how to find substitutes. We can't afford to buy the younger two 3DSs, so they're asking for money for birthdays and Christmas from their aunts and pooling it. I think they were quite excited to come up with that plan.

JoanneWilma: Was easier when they were young. They are moving into teen years and more aware, friends talking about doing stuff. We do do what you suggest with the saving, my oldest has had many little jobs which he has gotten paid. That has been great for him!

Sandra Dodd: Oh! I've just notice a bunch of new people came in. Hello.  We talked about deprivation and privilege and now we're talking about abundance and gratitude.

Bernadette: And they'll be so happy if James's tax rebate comes through and we can buy them after all!

Sandra Dodd: When our kids started getting jobs, the dynamics changed, too. We could help them buy something, or they could save up. And that left more family money to spend on the younger kids.

JoanneWilma: It is a privilege for my oldest in a way that he can go to work with my husband and because he is a good worker the boss pays him. Many kids can't go to work with their dads!

Bernadette: It's a privilege that we even have kids.

Sandra Dodd

Bernadette, that is true.
If I could have magic wishes come true, it would be that everyone who wanted a child could have one, and everyone who did NOT would be in no danger whatsoever of accidental pregnancy.

Sandra Dodd: And that everyone who ever wanted to have sex WOULD have (nobody dies a virgin unless they want to) and that anyone who wants to be married finds someone wonderful as a partner, and they have children IF they want them.

Marta Pires: 

Capn Franko: If only...

Sandra Dodd: And that's not a condition others can re-create, JoanneWilma, about the son getting to go to work with the dad.

Capn Franko: Well, I gotta go. See y'all next week if I wake early.

Sandra Dodd: So given that we are not in a war zone or famine area, that should be appreciated when we remember. Rather than wish we could stop wars and feed everyone (which we can't, and nobody can), find a way to be grateful for being among those who are, in this season on this planet, at peace, and with food available.

Sandra Dodd: Bye, Frank.

Sandra Dodd: And if you wanted children and you have at least one, that is something to be glad about. Not everyone has that happen.

Sandra Dodd: Are there other angles of privilege anyone wants to look at?

Karen James: Yes. I lost a long time friend because Doug and I had Ethan, and she found out neither she nor her husband could conceive. I understand her sorrow.

Sandra Dodd: When Keith and I were young, we had several friends, couples, childless then, and still. I don't even ask whether some of them were willing (or eager) to have children but it just didn't happen.

Rippy: Did your friend need some distance from you after Ethan's birth and that's why you are not longer friends?

Sandra Dodd: Looking at those sorrows doesn't help us any more than watching lots of news does. It's probably kinder NOT to hang out with them and have them watch our children do fun things.

heathermbooth: I'm going to go get Austin his meds that I am grateful are available while I marvel at how big he is suddenly getting that I feel privileged to be able to watch.  Thanks for the chat.

Virginia Warren: I feel privileged that nobody in my family has any chronic health issues, nor any major or even minor accidents or injuries.

Sandra Dodd: Thanks for being here, Heather.

heathermbooth: Thanks for hosting every week, Sandra.

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Sandra Dodd: I'm grateful that we could afford to get Marty's jeep fixed for him after he was broken down in Colorado a week and a half ago.

Karen James: Yes. I think it was too hard for her. We had been very close, and I think it was too painful for her to see since it was something she had wanted so much for herself.

Karen James: Yes. It was kinder to let our friendship go. I still think of her often though. I hope she's happy.

Sandra Dodd: My paternal grandmother REALLY wanted a girl, more than anything. She had stillborn twin boys, and then three living boys. No girls. She wanted to pass on what she knew of sewing, cooking, canning, tatting, quilting.

Sandra Dodd: Keith's mom wanted a girl. She had three boys, and several miscarriages. Keith was the last of the pregnancies, and not a girl.

Sandra Dodd: I try not to look too closely at those stories, because they're sad. Sorry to bring them up. But I'm grateful to have a girl and two boys. And I think of Holly's two ancestors who wanted girls, when I think of Holly.

Bernadette: When we lost Alexander, my cousin was jealous because she'd never even had a baby to lose, she couldn't speak to me.

Rippy: It might get better with time. I was in a similar situation and that particular friend moved away. Years later (after they had stopped trying to conceive and adopt), she found her peace. And we were able to reconnect our friendship.

Bernadette: Now she has four we're friends again.

Sandra Dodd: I made a new page yesterday: http://sandradodd.com/gratitude/chairs

Sandra Dodd: I had hoped to bring a video of that song, but there wasn't one. I don't know it.

Sandra Dodd: But the chairs were all used, gradually gathered.

Sandra Dodd: And I like each of them, a lot.

Sandra Dodd: 

Karen James: I love that page. The poem really moved me. Made me smile and feel quite fortunate.

Sandra Dodd

When I used the photo above as my facebook banner, Laurie McPherson left this comment:
I sing an ode to common things
To napkins, razors, balls of string
I sing of fountain pens and CHAIRS
Of ribbons in my lover's hair
Of things so simple, small and good
I might forget them if I would
Not pause each day and thus attest
I am a man uncommonly blest

~ "Ode to Common Things," John McCutcheon

(for the record, for the chat)

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Marta Pires: Beautiful.

Virginia Warren: Love it.

Sandra Dodd: I hope you all have appliances that work, and toilets that flush.

Sandra Dodd: I hope you all have a special favorite mug, or glass, and something good to drink from it.

Karen James: I remember one night, not being able to sleep, when I walked into my kitchen and looked at the counters piled with dishes and left projects and giggle to myself. I felt so full. So happy to have this life to live, with all it's messes left as evidence of it's fullness and fun.

Karen James: I even woke up Doug to share my joy. He smiled. I'm lucky he's open to my quirks. 

Sandra Dodd: I was right with you on that, Karen, until you woke someone up about it. 

Sandra Dodd: Nice that he didn't mind. 

Karen James: Yeah. I can be kinda annoying.

Sandra Dodd: Contentment.

Karen James: Yes.

Sandra Dodd: Contentment that you have a wife who will wake you up to share happiness.

Sandra Dodd: Contentment that messes represent activity and learning and eating and family.

Sandra Dodd: Contentment that we have enough, even if we COULD have more.

Sandra Dodd: Without contentment, I don't see how unschooling can work.

Karen James: Yes. I believe that is true.

Rippy: Me too.

Sandra Dodd: But WITH contentment, and with the parents learning, gradually, surely, to help children be contented too, big things happen.

Sandra Dodd: Any news or questions for our last ten minutes?

Sandra Dodd: Do you want to know more about the European unschooling symposium?

Sandra Dodd: 

Sandra Dodd: Or me being in Maine in September?

Sandra Dodd: Or about why you might want to come to Albuquerque this December, or next, or both? 

Karen James: Yes. With regards to Maine...who will be speaking?

Bernadette: I want to come already...

Sandra Dodd: Me, Robert Prieto, Laurie Wolfrum.

Sandra Dodd: Keith Dodd says no, but I bet he will answer questions.

Karen James: Okay great.

Jaclyn Koehl: We are still hoping to make it to Albuquerque in December.

Sandra Dodd

I can talk for two days but will give other people a turn. 
Cool, Jaclyn!

Karen James: I'm going to pass the computer on to my neighbour friend. Enjoy your day, everyone!

Sandra Dodd: This year we'll have Hema Bharadwaj and Jill Parmer and (MAYBE) maybe Rose Sorooshian.

Sandra Dodd: Next year, Alex Polikowsky and probably Marta Pires and Maybe Pam Sorooshian.

Marta Pires: 

Marta Pires: I'm saving money already, Sandra! 

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Jill Parmer: I'm thinking up a game for my presentation at ALL in ABQ. 

Sandra Dodd: Cool.

Marta Pires: It would be so cool if Pam went to Albuquerque next year. It would be awesome to meet her too!

Rippy: We're daydreaming about Graham taking a one year sabbatical and traveling through North America - visiting friends and family and going to Sandra's symposiums  One day, maybe. Hopefully 

Jaclyn Koehl: Jill, what are you planning to talk about?

Bernadette: I'm being called to make food. Bye, and thanks.

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Sandra Dodd

Nice, Rippy. You can stay at my house as long as you want to.

Sandra Dodd: I am privileged to have enough room for four. 

Sandra Dodd: The stairs aren't very steep. You'll have to get used to that. 

Jill Parmer: Confidence. Outcomes of unschooling I've seen. Ways to do better, be better...

Marta Pires: 

Jill Parmer: It's all still a jumble in my head. By December, it will be coherent. 

Rippy: Thank you Sandra.  Maybe we can figure out a way to make the stairs steeper and more death defying so we feel more at home. 

Jaclyn Koehl: Sounds very nice.

Jill Parmer: Confidence = building confidence.

Sandra Dodd: Thank you all very much for being here. This was a good chat!

Marta Pires: Great chat!

Sandra Dodd: I'll be back next week! Thanks for clearing and setting up the chat room, Marta.

Marta Pires: Thank you Sandra for hosting it and for coming up with such cool games and topics. 

Virginia Warren: I liked that game.

Rippy: Thanks Sandra! Do you have an alarm that goes off to remind you of the chat?

Rippy: Last week I didn't even realize it was Wednesday, much less of the fact that I had missed the chat time 

Marta Pires: You're welcome. It's a pleasure to be able to help and give back a little tiny bit. 

Sandra Dodd: No, I got up at 6:15 and went to pull weeds. I was listening to a book with headphones, from my phone, and when I came in, finally (two big buckets of small weeds pulled) I thought I might be cutting it close, but it was just 8:30.

Sandra Dodd: Last week I was at Heather's in California, and I did set an alarm.

Jaclyn Koehl: Yes, that was a fun game and thank you for the chat. Have a wonderful day everyone.

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Rippy: Oh my! You have super awesome time skills. 

Sandra Dodd: It helps that my kids are grown.

Sandra Dodd: It's easier to estimate time when it's not a jumble of unforeseen situations.

Rippy: I was organizing toys and little socks and jeans that are already too short and and and...

Marta Pires: 

Rippy: 

Sandra Dodd: Holly made dinner for me last night. 

Rippy: What did she make?

Sandra Dodd: Noodles and mushroom soup.

Rippy: Yum!

Marta Pires: Yummy.

Marta Pires: Now I'm getting hungry.

Sandra Dodd: I'm going to go pack up some books to send to Mexico! Finally more than one unschooling family in one place in Mexico. 

Rippy: Do you know of any families in Austria?

Sandra Dodd: I put a Mexican flag on the world page and everything! http://sandradodd.com/world

Sandra Dodd: I don't, Rippy; sorry.

Rippy: I was just on that page today! Looking for an Austrian family.

Rippy: Thanks so much for your website Sandra!

Rippy: See you next week, I hope!

Sandra Dodd: But Niki Lambriandiou was here from Germany and she works at unerzogen magazine.

Sandra Dodd: So she might be able to help you find someone in Austria.

Marta Pires: Bye everyone. Have a wonderful week!

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Sandra Dodd: E-mail me if you want her contact info, Rippy, or for me to ask her.

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Virginia Warren: Bye

Rippy: Thanks Sandra! Bye

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JoanneWilma: Thanks for my first chat experience!

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