Writing! (Parental)

August 20 2014

Topic: Writing! (Parental) http://chatnotes-unschooling.blogspot.pt…

From Sandra's notes for this chat:

"Writing: blogging, discussions, facebook, letters to parents and in-laws, Chat rooms. Considering the purpose and the audiences and the benefits to the children of the parent(s) writing sometimes."

Virginia Warren: Hi Jill

Virginia Warren: I want to thank you

Virginia Warren: For pointing out that I could be nicer to my husband

Virginia Warren: it helped me a lot

Jill Parmer: Awww. Thanks.

Jill Parmer: I hope it's making a difference. 

Virginia Warren: It never hurts, and it always helps.

Sandra Dodd: Only people who write will come in here. And people who don't mind reading a jumble.

Sandra Dodd: Some of my favorite other unschoolers don't like chats like this because it goes fast and it's jumbly. It's speed writing. Not something they teach in school, not counting essay tests, I guess. 

AlexPolikowsky4: I used to chat on ICQ long time ago when the internet was a baby!

Virginia Warren: I love it

Virginia Warren: I chatted on StarLink on commodore 64

Sandra Dodd

Marta has a blog now.
Could everyone here who has a blog they're willing to share (if it's secret, you don't need to even say so) put the URL here?
The edited chat trancript will have links to samples of unschoolers' writings that way.

http://sandradodd.blogspot.com

Sandra Dodd: Marta's: http://wabisabiwisdom.blogspot.pt

AlexPolikowsky4: http://polykow.blogspot.com/

Rippy: http://seekingnectar.blogspot.com/

Sandra Dodd: Some of the blog links I've saved go to blogs that have been closed down, or that were made private and I didn't request access to. I'm not interested in private blogs, just things that can be shared out more widely. 

Misa: I have a blog: http://chocolatenotprunes.com/

Sandra Dodd: I've had a frustrating few days. Maybe because school is starting in some places in the U.S. this week, or maybe coincidence, but we've had lots of new people join the discussion on facebook who are clueless about radical unschooling, and jump in and give bad advice.

Sandra Dodd: It didn't help that I had offered to put questions up anonymously and there was one particularly difficult one.

Sandra Dodd: But what that has to do with writing is that (because of school, and school's tests and grades) sometimes people think they are writing, and they are writers, just because they've chucked words out.

Robin B.: I noticed that phenomenon on more than one group, Sandra.

JennyC: are a lot of people writing to you on the side Sandra?

Sandra Dodd: Yeah, Jenny.

Rippy: Sorry you went through that Sandra.

Sandra Dodd: They don't seem to discriminate between thoughtful, useful, honest words and just the same number of random other words. 

Robin B.: People are *freaking out* and some of them don't want their questions in public for their friends and family to see.

Robin B.: Hence the writing on the side, I guess.

JennyC: I wonder sometimes too, if people write on the side because they think their particular issues is so very unique

JennyC: yes, the toileting one was a good one for being anonymous!

AlexPolikowsky4: IT is not uncommon for kids to have issues later one toileting.
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Sandra Dodd: So if I say "this comment isn't good" they go ballistic, as though it's no one's right, or beyond anyone's ability, to judge artistry from junk.

Sandra Dodd: Oh.  Yeah, but if kids at school poop their pants, others remember it FOR LIFE.

Rippy: 

Sandra Dodd: Sometimes it's because they want to go on and on and on and it's starting to get to me that they're doing it to me.

Sandra Dodd: I really honestly do NOT want to advise people one-on-one.

Sandra Dodd: I don't even want to read through all the details to say "I don't want to help with this."

Robin B.: But it's so important to point those things out, especially in the Facebook group. Many people are reading. If one answer is just as good as the next, we might as well all go home. Well, virtual home.
Robin B.: I mean saying "that comment isn't good."

JennyC: you really can ignore a pm

Sandra Dodd: But I haven't kept my e-mail address secret, ever, and on facebook I'm just a click away.

Sandra Dodd: Jenny, maybe you can, but I don't like to.

Sandra Dodd: And in my "other" folder there was a post I had missed for a month that started off "Please help me!"
Sandra Dodd: So I did ignore it (by not seeing it) and I feel awful.

JennyC: I don't get many side messages 

Misa: That "other" folder is quite easy to ignore or miss.

Robin B.: Jenny, you could if you owned a group!

Rippy: If it was really that important Sandra, there are other ways of reaching you. People must know that sometimes messages slip through the cracks.

Rippy: Your email is easy to find on the internet.

Serah: I agree, Rippy!

JennyC: yeah, no thanks Robin! I feel like a spend enough time on fb already!

Sandra Dodd: So about writing, though.
Writing can be therapeutic (journals and diaries and angsty poetry)

Writing can be clarifying (all of the above, and letter-writing, and blog posts about thoughts.

Sandra Dodd: Writing is improved by writing.

Robin B.: It can be clarifying, as well. When I write, I really think about what I'm saying (which is usually why it takes me so darn long to write posts).
Robin B.: Oh, ha! Just saw you wrote that, too, Sandra.

Jill Parmer: I think those interactions really show the people who want to get unschooling the stark contrast between schooling and unschooling. And really helps them get it. I'll bet you don't get all the messages about people thinking 'WOW, that helped me so much, and how it contributes to their better relationships with their kids and families.'

Sandra Dodd: But writing is improved by knowing whether the audience could understand the writing too. In letters, that happens because they respond.

In discussions, what people respond can let you know whether you were clear or not, and sometimes when you really nailed something in one way or another.

Rippy: I agree Jill. There must be many more people who are helped that don't write. The ones that are angry are usually the ones more motivated to write complaints.

Robin B.: I worry that I'm not clear or helpful. Which is sometimes why I just don't post.

AlexPolikowsky4: Writing on unschooling discussions have probably been some of the most helpful way for me to learn about unschooling and get clarity . It has been how I have learn to think, really think, clearly about unschooling, my kids, mindfulness and it has changed my life. I blame Sandra for writing so clear and to expecting clarity when people respond in her discussion spaces.

Sandra Dodd: Beautiful writing that touches people has always been important. Some of that kind of writing exists without authors—having passed into language, folklore, everyday use. Phrases, prayers, songs, jokes.

JennyC: I write in anyway Robin, because if I'm as clear as I can be in that moment, and it comes out not clear, then people will hopefully say something

AlexPolikowsky4: Thinking improved by writing!

Serah: I don't post... But I am helped immensely by reading other's posts.

Sandra Dodd: I don't mind people not posting, Serah. I don't pressure people to write.  (I hope I don't.)

Serah: Thanks, Sandra... And just to be clear I don't feel any pressure to write 

Sandra Dodd: -=-I blame Sandra for writing so clear and to expecting clarity when people respond in her discussion spaces.-=-

Sandra Dodd:  Some people see it and appreciate it, and others call me a bitch for wanting them to rephrase or clarify or shush it.

Robin B.: I know, Jenny. I write lots. But most of it ends up in Word documents. Maybe I'll publish a book of unsent Facebook messages, someday. 

Virginia Warren: I write a lot and then delete it.

Rippy: I'm such a slow writer that by the time I'm ready to write, days have already passed and people have already said such helpful things.

Jill Parmer: Me too, Rippy.

Sandra Dodd: Nice, Robin. "Thinks I didn't say."

Robin B.: Ooh, good title!

Sandra Dodd: I meant "things" but it's probably better with "thinks" 

AlexPolikowsky4: My life and my family life is much more joyful and peaceful because of it.

JennyC: sometimes there really are thinks that shouldn't be said!

Sandra Dodd: I like the idea that we use "said" for posts or chats like this. It seems too light, to airy and quick to be "wrote." Sometimes I use "wrote" on my site when I'm citing an author. Sometimes I juse put the name. Sometimes I say "responded" or "added"

Misa: Sandra, as far as as using "said" for posts/chats... I've found myself typing out part of my in-person conversation if I'm doing both. It does feel very much like talking.

Sandra Dodd: Right, Misa. It's the same process as conversations.

Virginia Warren: Mine is called "Headaches with Pictures", it's only for me.

Sandra Dodd: Nice name.

Robin B.: That's for sure. What some people write about their kids is heartbreaking. And now it's out in public.

Sandra Dodd: And sometimes I could help them by deleting those awful things, but I'm not in the business of protecting reckless people.

Virginia Warren: That's a reminder people could use, earlier.

Sandra Dodd: I'm trying to help some families live more thoughtfully.

Debbie: It's working Sandra

Sandra Dodd: And sometimes really bad examples make people thoughtless in the same way that seeing a highway accident helps people drive more carefully for a while.

Sandra Dodd: So if someone wants to come barelling into the discussion and roll their car and say "Your highway SUCKS!" and storm off, I could delete that or I could leave it at the side of the road and go on.

Sandra Dodd: I've said lately that I want to write. I need time to write.

Sandra Dodd: But I write every day.

Sandra Dodd: It's not the writing I'm thinking of, though.

JennyC: that kind of writing needs a time and space carved out, intentionally

Sandra Dodd: When I was being published more regularly, I was writing essays—starting place makes you think, examples, discussions, connections, ending place ties it up. Now I'm not doing that. And that's probably what I'm best at.

Virginia Warren: School really messed up writing for me. I'm still working on it.

JennyC: I don't have time for that kind of writing right now, maybe later 

Sandra Dodd: What I'm writing for publication now is "interviews" that are really exchanges between me and someone I know is a good unschooler. 

Sandra Dodd: Controlled chats with photos.

Sandra Dodd: But this kind of writing is real. It has existed in the form of letters exchanged between prominent people. Correspondence between scientists, or diplomats.


Debbie: Have you ever thought of writing another book, Sandra?

Sandra Dodd: Sure, Debbie, all the time.

Sandra Dodd: I think of editing some of the best of Just Add Light into a couple or three books by topic (parenting, peace, learning)

Sandra Dodd: I think of writing about the higher-level, more difficult issues and ideas.

Robin B.: That would be great! ^

Sandra Dodd: Which?

Robin B.: Sorry, Just Add Light compilation.

AlexPolikowsky4: Both!

Sandra Dodd: Not really, though, because the photos wouldn't be in color.
Except in an e-book.

Virginia Warren: Have you considered writing about writing? More, I mean?

Sandra Dodd: If I figured out how to put live links in an e-book that might be worth doing, but people can just go to the blog and click "random" and read all day. With color photos and working links.

Sandra Dodd: Oh, writing a book about writing? 

Robin B.: I used to write 10 page letters to my friend across the country. I'd usually write a first draft, too.

Jaclyn Koehl: If there is time here today I would like to hear any specific thoughts or advice on keeping family updated with kids interests, activities, learning. We live far away from family and I feel like it would be helpful to do more than upload some photos to Picasa to share with them now and then. The kids would be starting Kindergarten on Monday, if they were going to school and I can tell that family wants to know more about what we're doing but has not been pushy in asking for details.

Virginia Warren: You have written already about the value of writing as a tool to reach greater clarity.

Robin B.: Jaclyn, start a blog.

Sandra Dodd: Blog!
Sandra Dodd: A blog they can subscribe to, and you can put up accounts of cute things the kids do, and places you go.

Jaclyn Koehl: How often, how much?

Sandra Dodd: When you feel like it.
Sandra Dodd: When something happens. 

Robin B.: My 87 year old mother-in-law has a blog! Well, her daughter maintains it. 

AlexPolikowsky4: Jaclyn A blog, instagram?

Jaclyn Koehl: Are they any pitfalls?

Sandra Dodd: If you decide how often and how much, that is a pitfall.

JennyC: aren't there always pitfalls?

Misa: Jacyln, I do that by blogging and, if that doesn't feel safe enough, by Facebook.

Sandra Dodd: Sometimes people say "I will blog every week" or "I am going to put up a photo a day…"  Don't commit to a timeline. If there's an outing or trip or activity that yields two dozen photos, put them up!

Jaclyn Koehl: I worry that if we don't post something for a month, they will think we're not doing anything

Sandra Dodd: If two weeks go by and nothing photogenic happened, so what?

JennyC: right, that, for me would keep me from writing very much, if I put that kind of expectation on myself to HAVE TO write

Sandra Dodd: That's a pitfall: worrying what they might think about something you're imagining that hasn't happened. 

Jaclyn Koehl: 

Misa: I also use Flickr and send out emails. "I've put up pictures of the last week. We did blah blah blah."

Sandra Dodd: I think, personally, that a good way to think about a blog about unschooling is to let it be something you could use to prove your kids were learning. But then the challenge should be to NOT make it sound or look schoolish. Learn to see their learning, and photograph things and places and kids doing and seeing and being, and to comment without saying "Today we learned about butterflies."

Sandra Dodd: Show them looking at butterflies. Show butterflies doing things. Say something that no one has ever said before.

Sandra Dodd: When I was nine and starting to write, a teacher told us that when we talk or write, we say things that have never been said by anyone before, ever.

Sandra Dodd: Even at nine? We were uttering original sentences? She assured us that we were.

Sandra Dodd: So when you write on a blog, write something that no one has ever written before. 

Sandra Dodd: There is a phrase, often used humorously, or even as a put-down, that something isn't worth writing home about. Or that something will be "Something you can tell your grandkids about"

Jaclyn Koehl: I think I will try. Maybe I'll create something and put up some posts before I start sharing.

Sandra Dodd: Sometimes that second one is used when someone's about to do something that could kill them, like cliff diving and friends will say "Well if you die, it will be a good story to tell your grandkids" said to people who don't even have children yet.

Sandra Dodd: But in blogging, those might be considerations. Is it something worth writing home about?

Sandra Dodd: IS it something worth writing for your future grandchildren to see?

JennyC: One of my favorite styles of homeschooling blogs is a descriptive picture with a paragraph describing it

Misa: Too much documenting can make things bog down, though. I used to write down EVERY SINGLE THING we did and that is not a place I ever wish to be again.

Sandra Dodd: Sometimes I see people write (not on unschooling discussions, but in public) about how bad their kids are, and how the parents have grounded them, or taken their priviliges away. It's very sad that they did it, but terrible that they're publishing it for the world to sympathize with the mom and revile the kids.

JennyC: sometimes it's so hard to tell in the moment whether something is worth remembering or saving like that

Sandra Dodd: When my friend Helene was young, she said, if she peed the bed her mom or grandmother would hang the sheet outside and tell any passing-by neighbors WHY.

JennyC: so mean

Misa: That's awful.

Sandra Dodd: When we get firewood, I try to mention it on my blog. Partly, it's pretty, a new stack of cut wood. Partly, I can look back and see when we got firewood last. 
Sandra Dodd: But one of those that was not such a big deal at the time has made a warm mushy motherly memory for me. All three of my kids helped stack the wood, and I have photos.

heathermbooth: I started a blog four years ago. Once a year I have what I posted made into a book. Austin really enjoys looking through them and reminiscing about what we did that year.

Robin B.: I've been thinking about things I've written and saved that are not kind or relationship-supporting.​ Things I wrote when I was mad at my husband or at a friend. I've been thinking about going through my documents and deleting all that stuff. It feels heavy. And I don't want those writings to be what my family might see if I kicked the bucket tomorrow.

Robin B.: Guess I'd better get on it!

JennyC: do it!

Sandra Dodd: There will not be so many times all three of my kids will be together again, not without their other friends and partners. But that day, they were three single people working as a team without anyone there but them.  Winter things (Wednesday, December 18, 2006)

AlexPolikowsky4: OMG Sandra I love that old truck and the color!!

JennyC: I went through and dumped old diaries for that reason

Robin B.: Sweet.

Robin B.: To both of the above.

Misa: I've gone through and gotten rid of old diaries because I didn't want ME to see it. Maybe I was in a bad mood that day. Maybe it's not relevant. I just don't need it.

Jaclyn Koehl: Thank you all, very helpful!

Robin B.: I am a little worried that I'll just end up reading them, not deleting them right away. I tend to do that kind of thing with stuff. Like I need to turn it over and over before I get rid of it.

JennyC: I figure diaries are good for dumping, just as much as highlighting, but other places not so much

JennyC: facebook is a terrible place to dump

Robin B.: So! I have a project designed to lighten my heart!

Robin B.: Every time I write about the wonderful life we have because of unschooling, it lightens my heart.

AlexPolikowsky4: Same here Robin.

Sandra Dodd: You could make a blog that has old writings, back-dated, with more modern intros.

Robin B.: Oh, the Neopets Advent calendar link still works, too!

Robin B.: Yes!

Sandra Dodd: I have back-dated some blog things. Not in a dishonest way, but to put things where they would have been. On this blog, especially. Before I had this, I had a blog at SandraDodd.com but that one wasn't defensible from spammers. Before that I had a yahoogroup. I'm still moving things, but someday will have them all. It's the record of when pages were added to my site, in part.

Sandra Dodd: http://aboutunschooling.blogspot.com

Sandra Dodd: So the old links are from the date of the original post. And the blog with transcripts of chats is backdated, too, so that the chat shows on the date it occurred, not the date when it was finished.

Misa: Sandra, that reminds me... my grandmother, who had lung cancer, wrote letters to her kids and grandkids when she thought she was dying. For the longest, she'd update them. I still have mine... she's been gone over a decade now. It was interesting to see with "modern" intros.

Misa: I guess, in a way, that was blogging before blogging.

Sandra Dodd: Misa, that might be a thing to put on a blog. Either a transcript, or a scan of it.

Jill Parmer: Wow. Maybe that's part of my problem with writing. I wrote things in journals that were not very nice, usually when I felt bad about stuff. Writing is a chore for me. I wonder if I could get over that chore feeling, if I wrote not to purge negative things, but sweet things, thoughtful things?

Jill Parmer: My old journals aren't fun to read, and I don't read them. I like that Robin....getting rid of them.

Sandra Dodd: I never wrote to vent.

Misa: I have thought about doing that, Sandra.

Sandra Dodd: I wish I hadn't vented as much as I did verbally. Mostly to my husband. Poor guy.

Robin B.: I have some morning pages (from the Artist's Way book) that are all venting. I saved them and I don't know why. I should burn them. She recommends that (the author).

JennyC: I did both. Sometimes it was to vent and sometimes it was to dream

Sandra Dodd: So my example of the kids and the firewood was brought to say that you don't know which of your blog posts will be wonderful later.

Sandra Dodd: Just put them up.

Sandra Dodd: And some might always be mundane, but some, in retrospect will be jewels.

Virginia Warren: I think venting might be practing being angry.

Sandra Dodd: I agree, Virginia.

Robin B.: Good point, Virginia.

Sandra Dodd: In the 1970's some psychologists thought that anger needed to be purged, like poop. That you had to get it out of you.

Virginia Warren: They did some research on punching a pillow. And it made people feel worse. More aggressive.

JennyC: for me, it was an attempt to understand why I was angry

Robin B.: One of my dear friends created a secret FB group, seemingly for that purpose. I left.
Robin B.: I have another friend who uses FB to vent. But she's not careful about what she says about her kids (she doesn't realize that in her venting, she's said something not so nice).

Sandra Dodd: That belief has been criticized lately as harmfully incorrect.

AlexPolikowsky4: I had diaries as a child until I was about 25 or 26 ( I have no idea what happened to them) but they were not about venting or dreaming,. Just a very direct account of what was happening and sometimes feeling. But very simple and direct .

AlexPolikowsky4: Almost like a timeline!

JennyC: dwelling in anger is such a waste of time
JennyC: I really do feel that way and I know a lot of people have disagreed with me about that because anger is a "real" emotion that people can't help but feel.

Sandra Dodd: -=-I don't want those writings to be what my family might see if I kicked the bucket tomorrow.-=- Robin wrote that up above.

Sandra Dodd: THAT could be a guideline for what to write.

Sandra Dodd: Photos without captions can be frustrating years later.

Sandra Dodd: Captions should be things you would want your family to have, to keep, if you kicked the bucket tomorrow.

Sandra Dodd: That's how a blog could be seen. Things you would like the grandparents to see. Things that future friends of your children could look back on and smile.

JennyC: I like that

Jaclyn Koehl: I like that too.

Sandra Dodd: Kirby had a friend who started reading my blog, eight or so years ago. I didn't know he was reading it. I wasn't writing it for him, really, but he said he wished his life had been that way. And what he read helped him know my kids more.   [NOTE WHILE EDITING:  I remembered what he had said.  He said he liked the way I talked about my kids.]

Sandra Dodd: For a while he was Holly's boyfriend.

Virginia Warren: Jenny, that's true. The anger is real. But in a very real way, it is a chemical cascade, a biological hack meant to save your life if you're endangered.

Robin B.: I vent to Jenny sometimes. She's so helpful in turning things around and she won't let me stay in that place. I hope you know, Jenny, that you can tell me to stop ranting, at anytime. 

Sandra Dodd: AND if someone from the county or state or social services came to your house for some reason and tried to say you were being neglectful, a blog full of smiling children doing fun things would pretty well defend you.

Virginia Warren: Doing things under the influence of anger is dangerous.

Sandra Dodd: Prisons wouldn't be so full if more people knew they could have calmed themselves down instead of ramping themselves up.

Sandra Dodd: So a blog can help a mom choose calm over anger.

JennyC: it causes marriages to fail, doing things under the influence of anger

Sandra Dodd: It causes children to harden their hearts against their parents.

Sandra Dodd: It can burn houses down, and wreck cars.

Sandra Dodd: So…

Sandra Dodd: blogs should be pretty pictures of the details of houses. I WISH I had taken photos of every aspect, every detail of the house I grew up in.

Sandra Dodd: I wish I had photos of all my toys and games.

JennyC: if you must vent, choose righteous indignation instead of anger 

Jaclyn Koehl: Pursuit of the virtuous, not the vicious…

Sandra Dodd: But I took lots of photos of my kids and their things. Too many, maybe. 

JennyC: you can NEVER have too many pictures of your kids!

JennyC: and I was kidding about the above righteous indignation

Sandra Dodd: I vent sometimes at Radical Unschooling Info, and Always Learning.

Virginia Warren: One of my daughters has a learning style that doesn't produce much physical evidence.

Misa: These days, when digital images are pretty free (except for the cost for digital storage) you can take too many. But you can also cull.
Misa: Actually, I should revise that: if you take a lot, you need a good storage system.

JennyC: well, you daughter is your physical evidence!

AlexPolikowsky4: Learning happens inside of a learner!

Sandra Dodd: I have too many paper photos, unscanned, in boxes, in folders, in albums, in drawers.

AlexPolikowsky4: My son is often surprising me with the things he knows. It is all inside him. No physical evidence!

Virginia Warren: Exactly, she keeps it inside. You can only find out what she knows by hanging out with her.

Virginia Warren: I hope I didn't sound critical.

JennyC: right Sandra, my oldest daughter's early life is in a box and my younger daughter's early life is on discs

Sandra Dodd: Blogs about unschooling can be treated like portfolios and diaries and photo albums all rolled together.

Robin B.: Virginia, my daughter is a lot like that, too.
Other than her art. I'm always delighted to know the things she knows.

Virginia Warren: They both surprise me every day.

Robin B.: Isn't that cool, Virginia?

Virginia Warren: I love it.

AlexPolikowsky4: yep. OR when he says something and you think "wow". I was talking to a girl who has a major in history about the middle ages and the dark ages. Later on my son told me all about those times and much more. He knew all this and I had no idea!

Robin B.: Right, Alex!

Sandra Dodd: What kind of other writing do any of you do, besides discussions and blogging and journals?

Christmas letters? Articles for newsletters for clubs you're in?

Reviews on Amazon?

Misa: I do letters. I've done yearly letters, but not every year.

Sandra Dodd: Reviews on Amazon are book reports. 
When homeschooling parents ask whether they shouldn't make their kids do book reports, I used to ask the parents if they did any. And of course, "blink blink" they don't know what I'm asking.

Virginia Warren: Miriam came up when I was playing the Sims and asked if my Sim was in Canada. I was perplexed for a moment, then realized she was seeing a red-orange maple leaf on the screen.

Sandra Dodd: School reports are just practice. They're not real reports.

Sandra Dodd: Real reports are reviews online.

Sandra Dodd: Thoughtful writing intended to inform others.

Misa: I did book reports as a kid. Unasked for ones, even. But they were probably more reviews than anything else.

Virginia Warren: I've written book reviews on Amazon. I wrote on a group blog (briefly) before kids.

AlexPolikowsky4: I think kids write a lot more today because of computers and social media. Texting too! I used to write some when I was a kid but I know I write a lot more today on a daily basis. They may be just shorter text.

JennyC: I write to my representatives sometimes.  I write to share with them what I hope they will do and sometimes I write thank you's when I see that they've done something good

Jaclyn Koehl: As a kid I wrote choose your own adventure novels for fun

Virginia Warren: I wrote fan fiction as a kid

Misa: Oh! I used to write those interactive text adventure games. Loads of fun.

Robin B.: My daughter writes with a role-play group online.

AlexPolikowsky4: Gigi reads a lot of fan fiction!

Virginia Warren: As a young adult I ran AD&D games. My AD&D stuff was basically fan fiction, I took plot and character elements from the books I liked

AlexPolikowsky4: there was a time my son Daniel used to write on Wiki pages a lot. I do not think he is doing much of that nowadays but he sure did love helping others with games and information on games.

Robin B.: They use Excel spreadsheets to keep track of their characters!

JennyC: Oh, I write invoices and inventories all the time 

AlexPolikowsky4: Yes Robin! I forgot about that! Daniel did A LOT of Role-playing online. I don't think he is doing that anymore. But he wrote for hours a day.  Some pretty amazing stuff!

Sandra Dodd: I just saw this by Heather, higher up "heathermbooth: I started a blog four years ago. Once a year I have what I posted made into a book. Austin really enjoys looking through them and reminiscing about what we did that year."

Sandra Dodd: Heather's blog is very nice. She didn't leave a link, but I'm going to: http://www.todaywasamazing.com

Sandra Dodd: Knowing she's going to order a printed book version probably helps her focus and keep the tone good. The top blog today is partly about me and Holly.   Doddventures

Robin B.: It is a nice blog.

JennyC: I stopped writing in my blog. So I'm not going to link it

JennyC: I want to start another one, all shiny and new

Sandra Dodd: Did you stop when you were sick (not the right phrase…. nearly died isn't the right phrase…. help!)

Robin B.: Incapacitated? 

JennyC: with a different and clear focus, know one's audience... that was the downfall of my other one, for me. I didn't clearly define my audience. My audience was me.

Sandra Dodd: And Robin commented on saying mean stuff even in private where it might be found later)

JennyC: I stopped when life was super overwhelming and I needed to work a lot

JennyC: right, I wasn't exactly sick, but I did nearly die 

Virginia Warren: Sandra, you touched on regret earlier, about saying mean stuff about family in public.

Sandra Dodd: I write for me and my kids, mostly, I think. I don't have a consistent audience, I guess. Sometimes I'm thinking of my friend Ymelda who's from my home town and now lives in Virginia. Or another friend like that.

Sandra Dodd: Something I think someone will think is interesting, and if others want to read it that's fine. But let me say this, please because it's something big:

Sandra Dodd: A blog about unschooling by a mother who is happy to be with her children is valuable to strangers.

AlexPolikowsky4: I write for me and my kids. I really want to post more. I want the blog to be a collection of memories for my kids and me

JennyC: I think I wanted my blog to be about unschooling, but it wasn't all about unschooling because my life isn't all about unschooling, so it felt scattered to me

Sandra Dodd: If you can show how people look and act who are unschooling, and if you show happy and curious and serious and fascinated, or giggling and reeling-with-joy kids, and the comments from the mom are soft and kind and loving, when people see that their lives are better.

Sandra Dodd: Just for having seen it.

AlexPolikowsky4: Being happy to be with your kids is definitely a must.

Sandra Dodd: And if they're receptive to changing, they might be changed.

Sandra Dodd: And if they're looking for inspiration, they will be inspired.

JennyC: yes, Sandra, that is exactly what my current thoughts are about unschooling and blogging, exactly!

Sandra Dodd: So sharing the seemingly-too-small details of your days is probably exactly what someone else needs.

JennyC: It's very hard to convey in words, but maybe pictures will help

Misa: Sandra, SO TRUE. Legitimately, I did not know until I was an adult that parents could be happy being parents, let alone being with those kids all the time. A happy unschooling blog would have made a big difference as a kid or even young adult.

Sandra Dodd: Joyce sent me something about typical days. It's by Linda Wyatt, who is represented on my site, mostly about math.  It might come out all in one paragraph, but if so I'll edit it back for the transcipt.

 Linda Wyatt » 10:47am Aug 20 

In response to: "Seems like most just do errands all day. When does teaching come in?" 

It doesn't, typically. Not in the way most people, raised in schools, think of it. LEARNING does, all the time, though. It may not look the same as in schools, because it isn't separated out into its own "thing." 

Part of the reason it can look to other people like unschoolers "just do errands all day" is that when asked to describe a "typical" day, errands are things that are easy to list. They are concrete actions, semi-predictable. 

It is not really possible to describe or list what we do in a day, because most of it isn't the easily visible, easily described, easily listed things like going to the grocery store- although yes, we do go. It's everything ABOUT that, that I can't really adequately describe, and all the little stuff, the moments of discussion, of thought, or sharing, of wondering- those are what "counts." THAT is where the learning happens. 

If I attempted to really describe what we do, it would go something like this: 

 I'm usually awake first, unless I'm not. Sometimes one of my kids stays up all night, or gets up early, because they are right in the middle of doing something, and they don't want to take a break. Today, when I woke up, my middle kid was already awake. I know because I could hear music coming from his room. He is a musician and a composer, and apparently inspiration must have hit in the middle of the night, because he is working on something. 

When he knew I was awake (he heard me moving around up here) he came upstairs to "check in." We said good morning to each other. He made himself something to eat, and asked if I'd like anything. I declined, because I wasn't really hungry yet. I thanked him for offering. 

We briefly discussed the music we went to hear last night- a group of musicians I used to listen to when I was much younger, that he had not had the opportunity to hear before. It was a much-anticipated event, since it was the first time they had played together in about 35 years! Very exciting! While anticipating the actual event, we had listened to some of their music from years ago, as well as some of the music they have been playing separately since then. Last night's performance was jazz, even though it wasn't exactly what they played together before, although there were some elements of it. We talked about how, although they have all improved in that time, some of their choices of tone and phrasing are still recognizable from long ago, how musicians often have an "identity" like that. The sax, in particular, last night, really demonstrated that concept. 

At the event, they played a few tunes from the "old times," inviting some of their other former bandmates to join them on stage. But not all of them. One has since died, one didn't join in, and one wasn't in town. So this morning, we discussed wanting to hear the ones we didn't see last night. One of them, we'll have the opportunity to see in a couple of weeks, when his current group improvises music to a classic silent film, an annual event at one of the state parks near here. The other lives further away, and we rarely have the opportunity to see him, so we're looking at his schedule and ours, and seeing if we can make that happen before too long. 

After the musical discussion, he asked what my plans are for the day. I don't really know yet, so told him that. We may go out so he can practice driving, and usually, when we do that, we also go out for a hike, and/or go on a photography expedition. We just got some new filters for our cameras, and are learning to use those. They change what all the settings on the camera need to be, and it takes some time to become as accustomed to responding to changing light conditions with the new considerations, as we are without them.

We briefly discussed available time for those possibilities. Today, I work in the evening, so we'd need to be back here in time for me to get there on time. At some point today, I need to do some baking and start a new batch of yogurt, so we had to factor in how long it takes to do those things, which things that need doing can happen simultaneously, and leave some "flex time" in there for whatever his sister needs to do. She isn't up yet, so we couldn't talk to her directly, but we already know some of her plans for the day, from talking about them yesterday.

She has an exam tonight. She is starting a class at the community college that has a "challenge exam" at the beginning. She did some review for it over the past several days. We spent a fair amount of time discussing some of it, so I don't expect to need to do so today, although it could happen. She's pretty solid in her knowledge, so it isn't a big issue. This is a recertification class for something she already knows. The class is required by the State, in order for her to recertify as an EMT. The challenge exams (a written exam tonight and a practical performance exam on Saturday) may allow her to "skip" most of the class itself, but she doesn't plan to do that. She WANTS to go to the classes, to gain more knowledge and skill, and have the opportunity to work with the other students (many of whom are taking the class for the first time) and the group of instructors (some of whom are people she has huge amounts of respect for, and rarely gets the chance to work with.)

She'll be up soon, and if I'm not out driving with her brother, we'll probably hang out for a while, maybe watch an episode of Buffy together (we've been rewatching it from the beginning, something I've seen before, but she has not), and I'll probably tease her about her boyfriend, who is visiting tomorrow. This is a new relationship, and she enjoys that she has something to be teased about, so it's part of what goes on these days. During tomorrow's visit, the plan is for me to spend a little time with them, and get to know him better.

In the meantime, her brother and I have exchanged messages online (since he is in a different part of the house), sharing various things he and I have been reading or thinking about, as we typically do throughout the day. Recent topics have been about the ongoing math discussions I've been part of online, some questions he has about effectively working with groups of people, time management, ways to organize written material, some of the historical places family members have visited lately, how to take two separate electronic musical instruments apart and do some engineering to recombine them into something different, a woodworking project he is planning, and an ongoing challenge of wanting to be better at communicating, especially highly emotional things.

That's the first half hour.  

Yet, at the end of the day, if someone asked me to list what we "do," a list would come out like "Baked, made yogurt, went to the store, watched TV, had a discussion, went driving. Fed the cats, walked the dog." MY list doesn't take into account, at all, all the richness of what THEY are thinking, feeling, and doing on their own. I couldn't possibly list every topic that comes up for discussion. There is no way to quantify every thought, every connection, every interaction, but those are what add up to who we are.

(end of Linda Wyatt quote)

Virginia Warren: I am embarrassed by things I've posted on Always Learning.

Robin B.: I'll bet they show a path to enlightenment, though, Virginia!

Sandra Dodd: Always Learning used to be easy to read, the archives, but when they changed it, it's not easy to read, nor to mine. When I cut from there, I can't paste it. So you're probably safe from many people seeing it, Virginia.

JennyC: I should share my mundane days because those seem to be the richest

JennyC: yesterday was such a day

Virginia Warren: Mainly, they stop me from inviting my husband to join the list.

JennyC: that's an interesting disconnect Virginia

JennyC: you should write as if he were standing there reading over your shoulder

JennyC: I use that as a filter sometimes when I'm especially irritated with my husband

Robin B.: Sometimes what people write in those groups are private thoughts. Private from family members, I mean. So they can work them out in advance.

Virginia Warren: I know that now.

Robin B.: Okay, I'm off. Thanks for the chat!

JennyC: Lots of good ideas here today Sandra!

Sandra Dodd: Virginia, it is possible to delete your posts from Always Learning.

Sandra Dodd: I don't usually tell people that, but if it's paining your soul, consider it.

Sandra Dodd: BUT…. sometimes the post was automatically quoted, with the name, in another post. So you might not be able to strip out enough, and if so, don't strip any.  I mean in a particular topic, if you're quoted and searchable and others quoted you, it would be better to leave it. But if you posted something you wish you hadn't and deleting it wouldn't mess up the discussion, it's a possibility.

Sandra Dodd: I have heard people can. Joyce says, and she's usually right.

JennyC: well darn, but I guess good for sometimes

Virginia Warren: I thought it would be selfish to ask to cut something out of the archive. it might have helped somebody to see me floundering.

Sandra Dodd: Thanks for being here! Thank you for sharing your writing. 

JennyC: thanks for hosting!

Virginia Warren: Thanks everyone.

(chat edited by Sandra)