From Sandra's notes for the chat:
"Wednesday, March 12, Pam Sorooshian will be in the chat. You can interview her, as a group, if you want to! Marta will host; I'll be in Cairns, in northern Australia, being a tourist.
Pam did another chat in February 2009, if you want to read that for ideas for follow-up questions or clarifications, and you can read her writing from links here:http://sandradodd.com/pamsorooshian
Pam Sorooshian joined the chat
Virginia Warren joined the chat
AlexPolikowsky4 joined the chat
Pam Sorooshian: Hi Alex and Virginia. Just hanging out here waiting for Marta who will be hosting this chat.
Robin B. joined the chat
Robin B.: Hi Pam, Virginia, Alex!
Pam Sorooshian: Hi Robin.
Qarin joined the chat
Robin B.: Qarin!
Pam Sorooshian: Hi Qarin.
Virginia Warren: Hi!
Qarin: G'morning.
Virginia Warren: Hi, I was just reading Pam's previous chat.
Pam Sorooshian: Maybe I should have done that, too. 
Robin B.: Changed my color.
Pam Sorooshian: Fill me in Virginia. That was 5 years ago, I think.
Pam Sorooshian: So I had a 24 year old, 21 year old, and 18 year old back then.
Pam Sorooshian: Now they are 29, 26, and 23.
Robin B.: Wow.
Pam Sorooshian: That color looks lovely on you Robin! But red does fade, you know.
Robin B.: Yes, so my hair stylist tells me.
Pam Sorooshian: I had mine dyed bright purple a couple of months ago and it faded to almost no color within 3 weeks.
Capn Franko joined the chat
Robin B.:
Pam Sorooshian: Hi Frank!!
Robin B.: Urg. Bumped me back to purple.
Capn Franko: Hi. Just changed to orange so I wouldn't match Pam's purple.
Robin B.: Sometimes color doesn't take. Depending on the process and the hair and all that.
Robin B.: So did I!
Serah joined the chat
Capn Franko: Ha!
Robin B.: Okay, changing again, I think.
Pam Sorooshian: Serah!! Hi!!
Serah: Hi everyone!
Serah: Hi Pam
Pam Sorooshian: And Barb!
Virginia Warren: You talk about your "aha!" moment with TV.
AlexPolikowsky4: Hi All! Sorry I logged in and went back to a video but I am here now!
Pam Sorooshian: Oh yes. I remember that very well.
Virginia Warren: Great story. "Let's get a big-screen TV".
Robin B.: Mixing it up.
Capn Franko: Let's get our colors right, y'all! (grin)
Pam Sorooshian: I was lucky that my husband was sort of bewildered by how anybody could be anti-tv.
AlexPolikowsky4: Both my kids grew up with lots of TV but watch very little today.
Capn Franko: I love tv. Still watch a lot.
Pam Sorooshian: He hadn't had any tv in his life growing up. Didn't see one until he was 11 years old and then only a little black and white one until he was 23.
AlexPolikowsky4: I was too Pam. It was not like that growing up in Brazil.
Serah: I love tv too!
AlexPolikowsky4: I love TV too!
Virginia Warren: My TV watching was strictly limited when I was a kid. It made me sneak to watch.
Pam Sorooshian: So he just thought it was marvelous - unabashedly showed how awesome he thought it was.
Capn Franko: I grew up with 3 channels which went off the air at 11:00pm with the national anthem.
Pam Sorooshian: Made me seem like a cranky, jaded, anti-fun jerk
AlexPolikowsky4: I remember times like that Frank!
AlexPolikowsky4: I love TV surfing!
Pam Sorooshian: I just wanted to protect my sweet little innocent children from harm - and ALL the studies said tv was bad for children. Right? So at first I swallowed that hook, line, and sinker.
Capn Franko: It's also somewhat true than now I have 9 billion channels and it's mostly crap. But that could be said of literature, too.
Robin B.: Those would be the words I'd use for you, Pam. Cranky, jaded and anti-fun. NOT.
AlexPolikowsky4: I have fond memories of watching great shows and movies iwth my parents and talking about it!
Robin B.: Not now, anyhow.
AlexPolikowsky4: Yep Frank!
Pam Sorooshian: I was also a snob.
Robin B.: TV was fine in my house growing up, as well.
Virginia Warren: I have been summoned to play Pokemon TCG.
Pam Sorooshian: For example, my husband's aunt (who came to the US from Iran when she was in her 50s) loved to watch Three's Company.
Capn Franko: Well, I admint, I'm a snob to a great extent; but I still love art... and tv counts.
AlexPolikowsky4: I also love TV commercials!
Pam Sorooshian: I looked down on her for having such low-brow taste.
Serah: I thought that too Pam, but after meeting you and your girls, I let go of the fear and embraced my love of tv wholeheartedly. My boys and I are very happy now.
Robin B.: I remember nursing Senna (under 6 months old) and a particular commercial would come on. She'd unlatch and turn her head to watch. I thought it was great, but I did end up around attachment parents who thought TV was bad.
Pam Sorooshian: BUT - now I realize two things. The comedy in that show was physical and well done and she could enjoy that without understanding all the language.
Barb: I used to be a snob. Trying to root it out. Snobs are no fun, even to themselves.
AlexPolikowsky4: Not all of course but there are great ones and great discussions about it. My father was in advertising so it was normal to pay attention to all kids of adds! It is an art form too!
Robin B.: Which made things more challenging for awhile.
Pam Sorooshian: And sometimes shows are nothing but vehicles for one actor/comedian and thats what that show was.
Robin B.: Yes, Alex. I took college courses in marketing and advertising. Some of the most creative people I know work in that business.
Pam Sorooshian: When I view most of the characters as if they are props, I can relax and enjoy the slapstick humor.
AlexPolikowsky4: I know Robin! Some great stuff!
AlexPolikowsky4: I just got hooked on Korean Drama and I am loving it so much! I want to learn Korean now! Already picking a few words here and there!
AlexPolikowsky4: I have learned tons about Korean history and culture, language and so much more in just 2 weeks! Amazing! All that is about having fun but you cannot help but learn and that is exactly how our kids are learning!
Pam Sorooshian: So an interesting dilemma has been popping up recently - related to tv and video games and the "if I let them" stuff.
Robin B.: I'm like a rainbow...
Robin B.: Yes...
AlexPolikowsky4: Robin you are.
Pam Sorooshian: I often, very often, talk about not restricting tv and video games.
Capn Franko: But, Robin, you're not progressing through ROY G. BIV. You're a random rainbow!
Pam Sorooshian: But I also talk about how unschooling requires that the parents make efforts to ensure the family lives an interesting life that exposes the kids to all kinds of opportunities and experiences.
Bernadette joined the chat
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Pam Sorooshian: Those seem like contradictions to many people, seems like.
Robin B.: Frank.
Frank.
Capn Franko: One of the most difficult things for me as an individual through my entire long life has been that I'm interested in so many things but my time is limited and I am forced to choose. I *still* resent that. Damned laws of physics!
AlexPolikowsky4: Because they do not value TV and games as much as other things. And because it is easy for parents not to be interesting and just sit back and wait for kids to come up with things or bring new things in, or be interested on what they kids are getting out of TV and games.
Bernadette: We had no tv growing up because (apparently) my father was 'addicted to it' and couldn't have it in the house. Though he'd not had one until he was grown up and there was almost nothing to watch. And both parents told us continually that it was terrible and turned your brains to mush and mostly complete rubbish.
Pam Sorooshian: Alex - drop that first assumption.
Pam Sorooshian: or change it.
AlexPolikowsky4: OH MY GOSH Frank! That is so me. I have so many interests and so little time.
Capn Franko: Offering a smorgasboard of the world to the kids and watching their choices (which are not necessarily - or even probably mine) is a difficult thing.
JennyC: Is that because it's assumed that the only way to get kids out is to use force? Turn off the TV or restrict access?
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Pam Sorooshian: Assume these are people who love tv and video games. Support their kids fully.
Pam Sorooshian: Suppose it is me
Pam Sorooshian: Now - for those who have fully accepted and love and value tv and video games -- they still have the question of how much to try to nudge their kids to do more other things and go places, etc.
Robin B.: For some kids, their interesting life *is* about TV and videogames, even though they have all kinds of opportunities and experiences offered.
Bernadette: My children were lucky that their father loves tv and film, and I loved him enough to try and appreciate what he saw in it.
JennyC: Margaux's favorite thing right now is watching youtube! She does that in exclusion to almost everything else, but sometimes, when I offer to do something, she accepts.
Capn Franko: "Nudge" there's an interesting word choice.
AlexPolikowsky4: Do you still have left over baggage from hearing TV and Games are a waste of time? I still want to nudge my son to be totally honest.
Capn Franko: "Seduce"? "Offer"?
Pam Sorooshian: Not me.
Pam Sorooshian: I don't have baggage
Pam Sorooshian: I don't have baggage
AlexPolikowsky4: Robin is aware of how I feel right Robin?
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Shelley joined the chat
Shelley: I do still struggle with feeling it is okay for my daughter to play video games all day, but do allow it. But as you said Pam, providing a rich and interesting life with many opportunities is what is important as an unschooler. After moving to a new area there was a lot of time on the computer, but as we've found resources and community opportunities my daughter chooses to do other things more often.
Robin B.: Yes, Alex.
Marta Pires: Hi guys! I'm very sorry I'm late. Sorry for not being here to greet Pam and everyone else and thank her so much for taking Sandra's invitation to be here with us. I wasn't aware that the time had already changed in the US. 
AlexPolikowsky4: I don't have a problem with my son playing games and watching stuff online all day long at all. I embrace it greatly. I just would love to show him more stuff outside that I think he would love. SO maybe what Robin said: "For some kids, their interesting life *is* about TV and videogames, even though they have all kinds of opportunities and experiences offered."
Pam Sorooshian: Yesterday I was doing some games workshop stuff with kids all 8 to 12 years old. I heard one kid say to another, "I think about minecraft all the time." They went on to talk about how they thought about it when they were going to sleep and were still thinking about it when they were waking up.
Pam Sorooshian: I think that is absolutely awesome!
Pam Sorooshian: But, on the other hand, these kids were at my workshop having a blast playing dice and card and physical games with me.
AlexPolikowsky4: Me too Pam.
Pam Sorooshian: I think we long-time unschoolers often dismiss this question because it comes so very often from those who do not value tv and video games.
Pam Sorooshian: But it is a legitimate question even for those of us who DO value them.
JennyC: That's a good point Pam.
AlexPolikowsky4: But I still wanted to do more for my son. I offer. He is happy to do his thing. So I provide more games when he wants. I support fully. Still I get what you said earlier.
Pam Sorooshian: If we are going to offer the word to our kids, how much and what kind of effort should we make to offer varieties of experiences to a kid who is very absorbed in one particular experience.
Laurie joined the chat
Robin B.: I think I did a lot more "offering experiences" when Senna was younger. She was not an "early adopter" of computer games. However, she learned to read (to her satisfaction) from playing Zoo Tycoon II. She loves the world of her games now. She's not comfortable socially with small talk, but once she meets someone who has similar interests, she's a talking, social machine.
Pam Sorooshian: Okay - I know someone whose kid is uninterested in doing anything - this is not an "if I let them" scenario - this is a real person I know pretty well.
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Pam Sorooshian: Uninterested in anything except minecraft, I should say.
Robin B.: She's an artist, too. She loves drives in the car where she can ponder. So, I offer what I find related to all her interests, sometimes things that aren't.
Pam Sorooshian: So - Minecraft is truly truly amazing.
Pam Sorooshian: I'm SO sorry it wasn't around when my kids were younger because they'd have loved it.
AlexPolikowsky4: Gigi can spends the day playing Minecraft, watching youtube and talking to her friends on Skype but she will go out and do other things. My son rarely. It could be that he is 11 (almost 12) and going through puberty and a cocoon stage. It could be that we used to try to "nudge" him and it is a reaction.
It could be that this is who he really is and like to do, at least now.
Pam Sorooshian: It is so amazing that it is absorbing and there is so much to do!
Pam Sorooshian: But I sympathize with the parent who is trying to be a good unschooling parent and sees that her child is not getting opportunities to do and experience other things.
Pam Sorooshian: (Now - most people who say that are exaggerating, of course)
Pam Sorooshian: So - I think we need to be careful not to shut down the conversation about this with the assumption that any concern along these lines is based on being anti-video games.
Pam Sorooshian: So - I think we need to be careful not to shut down the conversation about this with the assumption that any concern along these lines is based on being anti-video games.
Pam Sorooshian: It is only that video games are what is most likely to be most absorbing these days.
Pam Sorooshian: So the real question is: how much does unschooling well rely on creating a life with lots of exposure to a wide variety of different experiences?
Robin B.: It depends.
JennyC: Chamille really loved video games for many years. Not so much now. She doesn't have time for it these days, or the bits of free time she has, video games aren't reaching the priority list.
Robin B.: Some kids are more open to a wide variety of experiences. However, things can be offered without attachment to them being "picked up."
Shelley: As a friend of mine says, we have our full on Minecraft Days and then days that lead to other activities. My daughter went out to our outdoor garage looking for fabric for some reason . . . found some mushrooms and now is doing spore prints and studying mushrooms in her field guide.
AlexPolikowsky4: Even kids that go to school may grow up and be people with few interests or a big passion and that is what they dedicate themselves too. And going to school will not change that or even guarantee they learned other things.
Pam Sorooshian: Rosie's fiance is a serious gamer. But he sets aside time to game - plans for it amongst the rest of his life.
Pam Sorooshian: True Alex. But they will have had a lot of exposure to possibilities to choose from.
Capn Franko: A very broad question the answer to which relies to an extent on the parents' willingness and ability to provide a "broad" experience. Some people are financially struggling; some are wealthy. That alone changes the landscape of what can be provided for experiences.
Robin B.: Alex, often kids who go to school who have a passion are encouraged to broaden their interests. Be well-rounded. For some, that's great!
JennyC: Then, I think it comes down to staying connected to your kids.
Shelley: You never know what the day holds. Even as a long time unschooler (mine are 21, 19, & 13), I still struggle with the idea of media all day, day in and day out. Not against it, just like it to be in balance. I know I get sucked into too much computer time and feel icky afterwards.
Pam Sorooshian: Remember, I'm talking about unschoolers, not school kids.
Robin B.: True. School kids are told and might not have a choice. Unschoolers have choices.
JennyC: Because if parents stay connected, then video games can be the jumping off point for almost any conversation, or exploration of ideas.
Pam Sorooshian: And I'd consider going to the 7-11 down the street to be an experience - not being a snob about it by meaning only museums and concerts or something like that.
AlexPolikowsky4: I think if the parents and or siblings are doing other interesting things that child will have a lot of exposure. My son will tell me some amazing things he knows that I am in awe and have no idea where he learned. He has also done and see things many kids his age will never see. So there is a lot of exposure and learning in a parallel sort of way?
Marta Pires: Seeing everything we do as an experience.
Robin B.: Watching Senna playing a particular game on the Wii and really enjoying it, being a part of it, has strengthened our relationship more. She's asked me to be part of her cosplay group at Sakura-con this year. I'm thrilled!
Pam Sorooshian: I don't think anybody here needs to defend the value of video games.
Pam Sorooshian: I hope.
Pam Sorooshian: I hope.
Robin B.: Yes, Pam! Senna's going to come to Joann's Fabrics with me today. I always invite her to come along on whatever I'm doing.
JennyC: I've never met a kid, whose entire life is entirely comprised of video games. Senna comes pretty darn close, but she does so much more than that.
AlexPolikowsky4: Jenny said this:"because if parents stay connected, then video games can be the jumping off point for almost any conversation, or exploration of ideas." I absolutely do this!
Marta Pires: I agree with Jenny, regarding being connected with our kids.
Pam Sorooshian: I think that last thing is a big key for this concern. Just like anything else - start where your own real kid really is.
Serah: Yes, that is very important.
Pam Sorooshian: But I also think a lot of parents really need to try to be more interesting and offer things that are more interesting.
Capn Franko: Got my vote. Know your real kid, not the one you imagine.
Barb: Shelley talked about finding balance, and that's a concern I hear a lot. Might be interesting to explore that.
Laurie: Because if you know your child and their interests, you have a better idea of what they might like to do and can offer those things and maybe share those things together too.
Barb: The more I think about the idea of balance, I realize it's not a very helpful concept.
Robin B.: My favorite Sandra quote: "If your child is more important than your vision of your child, life becomes easier."
JennyC: I think, it's really easy to disconnect from a kid who is playing games all day, I mean, they are happily engaged in their activity. It's the perfect opportunity to do housework or catch up with things. And sometimes a day or so can slip by with almost no connection. That's okay, but not okay to go longer than a day or so. That's been my experience.
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Barb: It might be better to get in touch of what we are needing at the time, and fill that particular need.
Pam Sorooshian: It is almost always moms worried about their sons. And I think some of that is that moms don't offer the sons the things they are really truly going to be interested in.
AlexPolikowsky4: It is interesting how video games have lead my kid to even different foods! And since I plant my garden he has some of that experience. He has come out and planted or watered it or done other things. Even if a handful of times that is more than many kids will ever get with a real garden. So maybe they are doing more than what we think they are?
Marta Pires: -=-And I think some of that is that moms don't offer the sons the things they are really truly going to be interested in.-=- That's interesting, Pam. Why do you think that happens?
AlexPolikowsky4: I would not like someone telling me I am watching too much Korean drama and I should balance that.
Pam Sorooshian: Because they're getting a lot of excitement and feeling of risk-taking and power from video games. And then mom says, "Come go for a walk with me and let's look at the pretty leaves and the sunset."
Shelley: Pam, I like your mention of not being a snob about experiences. This has been my journey as an unschooling parent, removing the layers. Thinking college educated was important and and being a little bit of a snob about it. And now fully supporting my oldest to quite college and try and make it as a stand up comedian. It has been a journey into letting go of judgment.
Marta Pires: Ha, Pam!
Marta Pires: But yes, I agree that it might happen.
Pam Sorooshian: Mom wants son to stop playing minecraft and do crafts with her instead.
Shelley: Or "quit" college, and I sure have let go of those English degrees, haven't I? haha
JennyC: Or sports.
Robin B.: Maybe mom should be offerering skateboarding and indoor karting!
Laurie: Or watch her son play Minecraft...
Robin B.: Risk taking in real life, if they wanted that.
Capn Franko: Being the only guy here... (grin)
heatherbooth: Pam, that reminds me of the time I made colored bath foam for Austin to play with in the bath. I was thinking we'd paint rainbows and trees and flowers. He painted himself with blood and the green was toxic goop. He painted himsef blue and was a bad guy. Pretty quickly in I was like, "Oh...right!"
Robin B.: *If*
Robin B.: Go Frank!
AlexPolikowsky4: My son likes to talk games and watch me play his new games. That is his way to connect to me!
Marta Pires: Hahaha Heather, go Austin!
Robin B.: My daughter, as well, Alex.
Capn Franko: Just interesting. We all have individual interests, sex aside. *I* am always chagrined when people want to entice their kids to go out into the beautiful garden and plant things. ACK! Not me, thanks. Let's clean the toilet or something instead.
AlexPolikowsky4: My son went out to help his sister make a huge snow man two days ago. I remembered I could do some snow paint and made two sprays and they had a blast.
Laurie: That's cool... because you get to experience what they are playing when you play the same games AND they enjoy watching you. It's connecting.
Pam Sorooshian: My husband would try to get our girls to go work in his big vegetable garden with him.
AlexPolikowsky4: OK Frank you can clean my toilet while I plant!
Capn Franko: Gladly. Seriously.
JennyC: My dad used to try to get us to go help plant the garden too!
Pam Sorooshian: They were bored with gardening his way. But now Roya loves to garden herself.
AlexPolikowsky4: My son is not into planting but he sure is loving new herbs from my garden. He loves the Orange Thyme I planted last year.
Capn Franko: But that's me. I know many folks who LOVE the garden. They might not want to go flying with me. I can't understand that! (wink) At a Bergsonian level, of coruse.
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Robin B.: I kill plants. And yet, I think I *should* garden. I think I should stick to what I love.
Pam Sorooshian: Anyway - I think it is something unschooling parents should do. Alex - you often offer your son as an example of a kid who plays a lot of video games but yet there you just gave an example of him playing in the snow and you made it more exciting with the paint.
JennyC: And it wasn't much of a choice really, but I do appreciate having a lot of that knowledge in my head as an adult. That's partly about my easy going nature though. Some kids wouldn't have taken that lack of choice well.
AlexPolikowsky4: I am a tomboy so I get my son. But there are things that he loves to do more with his dad.
Pam Sorooshian: I think Alex's snow paint example is really useful. That's the kind of thing parents need to hear who are not anti-video games but worried about any one thing taking up so much time.
Barb: It would be pretty cool if my kids could grow up without so many "shoulds" in their head. Just loving their lives.
Robin B.: Yup.
Pam Sorooshian: Jazz up those few other things! Like with snow paint.
Capn Franko: Yes, Barb.
AlexPolikowsky4: Yes Pam. He does do other things but not on a daily basis. I do not mean he plays games all day, he does other things on the computer. But people would consider his time on the computer as a lot. His dad does.
Pam Sorooshian: Well some people think an hour every day is a lot.
Capn Franko: In this house, videogames seem to be cyclical. Play a game intently until it's done, to the exclusion of many other things. Then, it's done. Minecraft lasted longer than most.
AlexPolikowsky4: True
JennyC: That's because there isn't an end point in Minecraft.
Pam Sorooshian: Most things are like that in my house, Frank. Intense passionate interests for a while.
Pam Sorooshian: And some things sort of stick.
AlexPolikowsky4: When I was around 13 I was into reading Agatha Christie and I remember reading most of the day and night.
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Capn Franko: There is a saturation point for everything, IMO. True IME, anyway, for most people for most things.
Pam Sorooshian: So Roya tried out every crafty thing imaginable - from printmaking to ceramics and on and on.
Capn Franko: Yes, Pam.
JennyC: To me, that's about being able to see the learning.
AlexPolikowsky4: Yes. My son has always been one to be very passionate about what he is doing at the moment. I think like me he craves a lot of mental stimulation. I can only plant a garden if I have an audio book playing. I really love computers because it keeps my mind busy and my son is like that.
Capn Franko: Ah, I can't just read or just watch tv/movie (unless it's REALLY excellent). I hafta do both simultaneously. Chloe is like me but Ronnie and MJ find it confusing.
AlexPolikowsky4: You are like my lost twin brother Frank.
Capn Franko: Grin! I'm perusing an article on loop quantum gravity while we're chatting here.
JennyC: To me, that's about being able to see the learning.
AlexPolikowsky4: Yes. My son has always been one to be very passionate about what he is doing at the moment. I think like me he craves a lot of mental stimulation. I can only plant a garden if I have an audio book playing. I really love computers because it keeps my mind busy and my son is like that.
Capn Franko: Ah, I can't just read or just watch tv/movie (unless it's REALLY excellent). I hafta do both simultaneously. Chloe is like me but Ronnie and MJ find it confusing.
AlexPolikowsky4: You are like my lost twin brother Frank.
Capn Franko: Grin! I'm perusing an article on loop quantum gravity while we're chatting here.
Marta Pires: Pam, when I was reading your 2009 chat, you talked a bit about being brave and confident (not your exact words, but I can't find the quote right now). We've been having some discussions on a Portuguese homeschooling group about whether we can or can't unschool here in Portugal. People have a lot of fear and blindly say that it isn't doable. I won't go into details about that here, but I wanted to ask you to talk a bit about this -- that unschooling requires some bravery, it requires that we build our confidence in what we're doing, by reading, thinking and analyzing, by living and watching our kids closely.
Pam Sorooshian: I think we don't have a path to follow - we're forging our own path. That's exciting and energizing for some of us, but can be lonely and scary.
Pam Sorooshian: Not only are unschoolers forging our own path through all kinds of unknown geography, our kids are often out in front of us, running ahead. That's extra scary.
Marta Pires:
Marta Pires: I agree.
Pam Sorooshian: We don't know where they are going. They don't either. They're living in the moment and we're trying to look past them down the trail and figure out if there are child-eating monsters up ahead or if the trail goes over a cliff or what.
JennyC: It's a twisty trail for sure!
Pam Sorooshian: So, yes, I think if you have any imagination then it is scary.
Pam Sorooshian: And most people will find it easier to just go along with some program - more comfortable.
Capn Franko: Good analogy, Pam. I want them to have HUGE life experiences, but I don't want them eaten by bears.
JennyC: I wouldn't have imagined that Chamille would be doing what she's doing right now, even though, when she was 12, it's what she said she wanted to do. I couldn't even remotely wrap my head around how it could happen.
Bernadette: It's a bit of an illusion that ANY parent can know the path ahead of their child.
Pam Sorooshian: So true, Bernadette. So true.
JennyC: So, what I did, was to support each little interest in between.
Robin B.: I think being brave and confident is predicated on having an understanding of how learning happens. If you can't get your head around that, fear will take over. If you can't stop believing all the gloom and doom proferred as *inevitable* it will be harder.
JennyC: And all those things that she did were important and relevant to what she's doing now.
Marta Pires: Deb Lewis gave a beautiful talk about this too, in Albuquerque two years ago, I believe. About he we can develop the courage it takes. Her talk helped me immensely.
Marta Pires: http://sandradodd.com/deblewis/courage
Her talk helped me immensely.Marta Pires: http://sandradodd.com/deblewis/courage
Pam Sorooshian: But, if a well-worn path is followed, at least the parent can look back and say, "I followed the plan! I did everything right. It is not my fault if my kid is a mess."
Capn Franko: MJ and Chloe are brave and confident and I love seeing that. I still am not.
Pam Sorooshian: YES! Love Deb's take on courage!
Robin B.: Senna is brave and confident in ways that mean the most to her. It might not look like that to an outsider, though.
Pam Sorooshian: My own courage came a little out of arrogance - I just looked around and thought, "I can do better than that."
Marta Pires: I am glad that people like you and Sandra and Joyce and Deb have been telling us all about your paths, because I think it helps us to not give in to our imagination so much.
Capn Franko: Oh, yes. I am arrogant, if not courageous. It goes with my snobbery.
Pam Sorooshian: I figured I had three kids and if they were shoved down the usual school path, statistically the odds were that at least one would be in some kind of trouble by high school.
AlexPolikowsky4: I am confident in many ways (does that sound arrogant?) but I have moments of doubt and get shaky here and there. Then I think about it and I am good again.
Laurie: Brene Brown's work is a good fit with unschooling I think in that it helps one to be brave and courageous... I just finished The Gifts of Imperfection and before that read Daring Greatly.
AlexPolikowsky4: Pam, when my son was 6 months old I knew that there was no way he would do good in school. It would have been a mess for him. Gigi probably would have been OK.
JennyC: Nothing has shaken my confidence more than almost dying and quite literally being unable to do anything with or for my kids!
Pam Sorooshian: I often think this way, "I've thought about this a lot and made my decision. Now I owe it to myself and my family to really truly embrace that decision and give it my all and not be wishy-washy about it."
Robin B.: Same here, Alex.
Capn Franko: Jenny! (hug)
AlexPolikowsky4: ^^ what you said Pam ^^
JennyC: But, all those moments before, the firm belief in what we are doing, have helped.
AlexPolikowsky4: Jenny <3
Capn Franko: Well said, Pam.
Robin B.: But Jenny, it would have been worse if you hadn't already laid the foundation for their happy lives, I think.
Robin B.: I agree, also, Pam.
Marta Pires: My confidence has grown very gradually. Reading, thinking critically, observing my family and what happens when I do this or that, discussing, analyzing -- that has helped me build my confidence. That and the thought that it's my families turn now.
JennyC: That's absolutely true, Robin.
Laurie: Jim said the other day, "I jumped in with both my feet and I have faith in the process" (of unschooling). I was so happy I had tears in my eyes because it felt so good to hear he Really embraces it.
Pam Sorooshian: That's really nice, Laurie! A gift!
Laurie: It is!
Barb: Yep, sometimes you choose to dive in!
Barb: Laurie, I also love Brene Brown, and just finished that same book.
Pam Sorooshian: This also goes along though with the idea that you shouldn't do something if you don't really believe in it, accept it, understand it.
Barb: It's a conundrum, because the only way forward is to try it, even if you don't fully embrace at first.
AlexPolikowsky4: Laurie, I am so thankful that my husband goes along with it. He may not get everything but he sure does support me. I love him because of that. He has confidence in me. He always liked that I was a woman that was confident and I think that does make him feel like he can trust me. If I was not maybe it would be different.
Pam Sorooshian: I don't think unschooling needs to require courage. If you really understand it and it makes perfect sense to you, then doing anything else will seem illogical.
Marta Pires: I agree. The decision to unschool shouldn't be taken lightly.
AlexPolikowsky4: I agree Pam.
Barb: Pam, maybe you are forgetting those beginning stages!
Marta Pires: Yes to that too, Pam.
Pam Sorooshian: And yet, as Barb said above, one way to really get it is to do it
JennyC: The courageous part for me was going against what most people are doing and being confident that it was working.
Capn Franko: And on the practical side, I think of Chesterton's comment that anything worth doing is worth doing badly. When you start, you're gonna screw up. That doesn't mean you've ruined the experience. It's just a screw-up. Correct it and keep on keeping on.
AlexPolikowsky4: The more you do it and look at it the more you get it.
Pam Sorooshian: Barb - I really didn't have doubts. I'd thought about education SO much already, read John Holt and was a fan of Summerhill 15 years before I even had kids.
Deb Lewis: About courage: Some people crave approval. If unschooling makes sense to you and you decide to do it, it may take courage to face the disapproval of your parents, friends, coworkers.
Laurie: Believing in yourself and your own values helps you to follow your own path....and sometimes even if you believe in it, it takes courage to go against what "everyone else" says "should" be done.
JennyC: I never had any intention of keeping my kids out of school. That happened suddenly and with a great epiphany.
AlexPolikowsky4: When I started, I had no doubts either. But fully understanding took time and I am still learning and getting more and more as my kids get older.
Deb Lewis: But if you really understand learning, it doesn't take courage to understand unschooling.
Laurie: And screwing up is a chance to learn and maybe do better next time.
Virginia Warren: I had some lingering snobbery that was stopping me from really appreciating my daughter's passion for pokemon.
Robin B.: Yes, Deb. Going against family is a big deal for some people.
Celeste: Unschooling made so much sense to me because of my own life. There is so much I learned outside of college to become successful in my career that it dwarfs what I did learn in my years and years of school.
Barb: Perhaps, Deb and Pam. How many of us really understand learning in the beginning?
Pam Sorooshian: I spent so much time searching for an affordable and great alternative school - I didn't know about unschooling.
Marta Pires: I really didn't have doubts either. But maybe that happened because when I first started reading about unschooling, I was reading mostly Sandra's writings and your writings, Pam, and the writings of other experienced radical unschoolers. Everything made sense, so I quickly started to see the potential.
AlexPolikowsky4: Kelly Lovejoy calls them Learningtakes not mistakes.
Pam Sorooshian: But pretty much the minute I discovered unschooling, that was it for me.
Celeste: And I'm still learning new things all the time.
Barb: Now I can't imagine going back! But what a lot of deschooling I've journeyed through.
Capn Franko: Kelly is a smart woman.
AlexPolikowsky4: I miss Kelly! She is fun!
AlexPolikowsky4: I miss Kelly! She is fun!
Pam Sorooshian: I had a very very big advantage over most people. I taught college freshmen at big prestigious universities and local community colleges. I knew exactly what schools were doing to kids.
JennyC: In some ways, I'm really glad there weren't many online unschooling resources when I started. I came directly to the heart of unschooling. I didn't need to wade through a sea of this and that kind of unschooling.
AlexPolikowsky4: For me too Pam. I decided right there. I thought I was going to find a Montessori school as my mom is a Montessori teacher but I started reading about unschooling because I knew my son would not do well in a school and it all made so much sense to me.
Barb: Just a thought and a guess... those that can quickly "get it" trust themselves already.
Capn Franko: I taught innerscity high school. I saw what the bureaucracy of school did to the *possibility* of school.
JennyC: I think that's true, Barb.
Robin B.: I had a La Leche League leader who reassured me about the option of not sending my child to school.
Pam Sorooshian: Roya went to a Montessori school for one year. One of the AMA teacher training schools, in fact.
Deb Lewis: I came to understand learning by watching my son, and weighing what he was doing against what I had always believed about learning. My son won.
Barb: "To trust our children is to trust ourselves, and most of us were taught that we couldn't be trusted" I probably mangled that quote from Holt, which I heard from Pam.
Pam Sorooshian: Even there - they insisted she had to go every day from 9 to 3. I said we'd pay for the whole thing but I was picking her up at noon.
Deb Lewis: Radical Pam.
Capn Franko: Even Summerhill is still not unschooling. Chloe went there for one term.
Laurie: We have a unschooly school near us, but it is still school.
JennyC: When Chamille was little, I was so against daycare. That helped a lot, even though she ended up going to one when she was 4.
AlexPolikowsky4: I am so glad my mom did not put emphasis on school as other people did. She also would declare that the day was too nice and we should go to the beach. She was pretty cool (is pretty cool) and having very creative parents and open like my mom and dad really helped me be open to unschooling.
Virginia Warren: I first read Sandra's site, and Joyce's, when I was pregnant with Lydia, now 9. I could have saved myself a lot of trouble if I'd joined Always Learning then but noooooo, I already knew it all, I read those websites! Very schooly of me.
Barb: Alex, you had a HUGE advantage.
Marta Pires: Ha Virginia!
JennyC: That's funny Virginia!
Barb: Those of us who were abused as children take a long time to recover and trust ourselves.
JennyC: That's true Barb, I'm sorry.
Pam Sorooshian: Frank, has Chloe done any writing about her Summerhill experience?
AlexPolikowsky4: I did, Barb. I know that. And in Brazil school is NOT everything and only half day. So my life was not school. I did love school. But I was bored there as I needed more stimulation. I did not get in trouble as I was sneaky and read during class a lot.
JennyC: And sometimes people never really recover from that.
Barb: Unschooling has helped me recover more than anything else. It is true that you can heal yourself through parenting your children. I am so grateful.
Pam Sorooshian: I think it would be so very interesting to hear about Summerhill from the perspective on a previously unschooled kid.
Capn Franko: No, Pam. She should. We've had lots of chats abou it. She enjoyed much of it. The great negative (for us) is that Zoe Redhead, his daughter who runs it now, is very anti-parent. I've also heard this about many Sudbury schools.
Rippy joined the chat
Laurie: I'm glad Barb!
Pam Sorooshian: Interesting considering it is those very parents who have sent their kid to Summerhill.
Virginia Warren: Barb, YES.
AlexPolikowsky4: I heard that of Summerhill and other democratic schools!
AlexPolikowsky4: I have a very important question to ask that I would love input.
AlexPolikowsky4: Give me a minute to write.
JennyC: I like that there are options. I think, in general, it's good to have lots and lots of school options, other than JUST public school.
Capn Franko: Neil originally intended that the kids be independent and make their own rules separate from parental influence but he was not philosophically ANTI-parent. Zoe is and, like I said, I've heard from Sudbury folks who say the same about their Sudbury school which may not be true of all Sudbury schools.
Qarin: (bah. I completely forgot I was in here)
Marta Pires: I was going to say that we've only got half an hour until the end of the chat, so if anyone had more questions for Pam...
Capn Franko: Alex is typing... (grin)
Marta Pires: Hehe
JennyC: What happens in my neck of the woods, is that there are a lot of unschoolers who end up with kids in those places and the unschooling gets all mashed up.
JennyC: Welcome back Qarin.
Laurie: Isn't it interesting that people say that you must first love yourself before you can love others....and then sometimes it works the other way around - We KNOW we love others, and can easily give that love to them and that gives us space in our own hearts to love ourselves or be gentle with ourselves. Same applies to trusting ourselves....maybe we can easily trust other people, but if we can do that for others, then why not ourselves?
Laurie: That was random...but something I've been thinking about..
Capn Franko: Laurie speaks for me. Loving Ronnie, MJ, and Chloe, helped me start to accept myself. Still working on the love thing.
Pam Sorooshian: I would like to read more about how parents themselves heal their own childhood issues as they parent their own kids. If anybody (Barb? Frank?) wants to write about that for The Homeschooler magazine, just talk to me.
Qarin: That resonates with me, too, Laurie.
Pam Sorooshian: Laurie? You too. If you want to think in writing, I'd sure like to read it.
JennyC: Unschooling has allowed me to continue being hopeful and optimistic and positive.
Qarin: I'm living with my mom. heal my childhood issues? bwahahaha. sigh.
JennyC: School was pretty soul crushing for me. My family life was pretty darn good, but my family does tend to be cynical.
Pam Sorooshian: Well - I guess, Qarin, you have plenty of opportunity!
Virginia Warren: Trying to be the parent I would have wanted has helped me a lot.
Capn Franko: Maybe so, Pam. I've touched on that a coupla times on my blog.
Qarin: >snort< uh huh.
Pam Sorooshian: I loved my parents. They loved me. My mom was a very very engaged and interesting and cool mom.
JennyC: Me too Pam!
Pam Sorooshian: But, at times, I think about my kids and how they feel toward me and how they talk with me and want to hang out with me and I know that is really not the relationship I had with my own mom.
Laurie: Will work on it and send it to you Pam.
Pam Sorooshian:
Qarin: I love my parents, too. they love me. We're all really limited in our communication skills/honesty with each other, though. That's a cycle I think I am breaking with my kids.
JennyC: There is something very different about that.
Virginia Warren: My parents had too many problems.
Laurie: THAT is the sweetest thing in the world...for your loved ones to want to be with you and make the time to do so.
JennyC: When I turned 18, I left to finally be on my own.
Pam Sorooshian: I know someone whose mother was a drug addict and father abusive. Mother died young. Father drank a lot.
Pam Sorooshian: I wonder what it takes to heal from that kind of childhood.
Laurie: And perhaps it is because you wanted to be with them and made the time to be there with them and they felt so loved that they now feel this way.
JennyC: Nobody to answer to, nobody that was looking into my life and making judgement calls about it.
Laurie: And probably did growing up too.
Pam Sorooshian: I did that too, Jenny. But at 16.
Capn Franko: I loved my parents. They were wonderful parents in a classic way. I was *still* a broken child.
Pam Sorooshian: Lived in my own apartment, worked at a department store full time. Still went to high school every day.
Virginia Warren: That's not all that far from my childhood, Pam.
JennyC: Even though, I really loved my family! But what I have with my own kids is so very different.
Capn Franko: Me, too, Jenny.
Robin B.: I come from a military family, which is an issue of itself. My dad probably had PTSD from WWII and was an alcoholic, but had his good moments. My mum was lovely. And was wonderful to Senna.
JennyC: I don't know the answer to that, Pam. I've seen unschooling parents with terrible childhoods, really struggle to be even halfway decent parents.
Pam Sorooshian: I think of people who had really truly difficult childhoods and it breaks my heart - but I'm so encouraged by adults who recovered from it.
Robin B.: I loved them both dearly, although I have some issues unresolved, I think, from my dad.
Virginia Warren: My parents were walking wounded from horrific childhoods, they could barely take of themselves.
Virginia Warren: (Sorry)
Pam Sorooshian: Oh Virginia!
Pam Sorooshian: That makes you kind of amazing, you know! To come through that and then choose to do better for your kids!
AlexPolikowsky4: OK Here it goes: My husband has been thinking lately about our daughter’s (7 year’s old) "multiple personalities". She spends part of each day being an almost one year old boy named Finnegan and an even younger little baby girl named Poopoo. It doesn’t faze me or her older brother at all and we talk to whoever she is telling us she is - herself, Finnegan or Poopoo. I remember my youngest brother pretending to be a dog called Brownie around the same age as my daughter is now was. · To be honest, I love playing pretend even now. I’ll happily create a new (or old) personality and pretend to be whoever the kids want me to be.
Pam Sorooshian: That makes you kind of amazing, you know! To come through that and then choose to do better for your kids!
AlexPolikowsky4: OK Here it goes: My husband has been thinking lately about our daughter’s (7 year’s old) "multiple personalities". She spends part of each day being an almost one year old boy named Finnegan and an even younger little baby girl named Poopoo. It doesn’t faze me or her older brother at all and we talk to whoever she is telling us she is - herself, Finnegan or Poopoo. I remember my youngest brother pretending to be a dog called Brownie around the same age as my daughter is now was. · To be honest, I love playing pretend even now. I’ll happily create a new (or old) personality and pretend to be whoever the kids want me to be.
AlexPolikowsky4: However, my husband hasn’t seen this kind of serious commitment to playful multiple personalities before. He doesn’t remember it from his own childhood, and he’s not sure whether it might have some impact on her development if she sort of splits herself into three (or more) personalities at times. He wonders if it could it possibly harm her. He’s mentioned that he’s concerned that it might mean not dealing in later life with issues that come up, or not taking responsibility for her own actions, since it was "the other/younger personality". Or even developing a real muliple personality disorder.
Capn Franko: Alex, doesn't sound problematic to me. IS Brian VERY uncomfortable with it?
Virginia Warren: Miriam used to be "lost girl" sometimes.
JennyC: Chamille was that kid! She was very convincing with her stories sometimes.
Deb Lewis: Alex, Dylan was Mrs. Quarks and wore a string shopping bag on his head as a hair net.
AlexPolikowsky4: Yes, dad is unconfortable. He is worried that it is more than just a childhood pretend because he has no experience, as he himself did not play like that.
Robin B.: Yes, I'm wondering the same thing as Frank.
Pam Sorooshian: Alex - have you looked at the literature on multiple personality disorders? I think the current thinking is that it doesnt actually exist. Check on it.
Capn Franko: Maybe some quick research on childhood imaginative play and a couple "scientific" articles would put his fears to rest.
Deb Lewis: Yes, and stories about other children with vivid imaginations.
Marta Pires: What has also helped me heal my own childhood hurts, along with parenting my own child, has been to really focus on the positive, on the love, on the good things. That has helped me smoothen my heart, it has helped the hurt to slowly start fading away, if that makes sense.
Virginia Warren: Thanks, Pam. Sometimes I think it is easier when parents are unambiguously poor examples. One feels no need to emulate them at all, at all.
AlexPolikowsky4: His worry is that she is very commited and that it will hinder her development to pretend being someone else for long periods of time.
Virginia Warren: Yes, Marta!
AlexPolikowsky4: I think the problem is that dad was not a child that played like that at all.
JennyC: It reminds me of the movie Chocolate. The one with the little girl who has a huge imaginary life all made up.
Capn Franko: I have an interesting mixed emotional chrun that my mom died before my kids were born. I think there are many things that would have been great for them to know their grandma. I think about other aspects that maybe it's good that they missed those.
Robin B.: What about people who act as their profession? It helps to pretend to be someone else for a long period of time.
Pam Sorooshian: Ah Frank - I feel that way about my dad. He was a great dad to me because I was compliant and happy and easy going.
Pam Sorooshian: But he was harsh and cold with my sister who was much more demanding.
Virginia Warren: A mantra I've cobbled together for myself from what I've learned about unschooling over the years is: "If you want things to be nicer, you be nicer."
Pam Sorooshian: He was critical.
Capn Franko: Ha, Robin. I was always "acting" at work.
Marta Pires: Interesting, Robin. What about actors?
Qarin: Interestingly, I suspect the opposite - the pretend, in the absence of an actual mental disorder, seems like it could really help development- practicing seeing things from other points of view is awesome. I suspect it helps develop a really strong theory of mind (the understanding one has that other people are not yourself, and think of different things than you do).
Pam Sorooshian: And I'd hate to have seem him be so critical of my own kids.
AlexPolikowsky4: I have thought about actors!
Qarin: So what I wonder and want to clarify is, does her father think she's broken *now*, or just that this will cause her to be broken later? Because if he's just worried about later, I think it is probably easy to help him find lots of examples of healthy adults who behaved this way as children.
JennyC: I think Qarin has a good point about it helping with empathy and learning to see things from the viewpoints of others.
Bernadette: When my sisters and I were young we played with Fisher-Price Adventure People. We didn't pretend to be them, but we each had our own characters and we plyed with them every moment we got for years and years. We knew them so well we could almost believe they were real people, we used to say that we wouldn't be surprised if we walked round a corner and bumped into one of them. We would have recognised them!
Pam Sorooshian: Alex - there is a ton of literature about the value of pretend play. It is mostly about 3 to 5 year olds, but as we unschoolers know, kids who are allowed to do so will extend those early childhood characteristics into older ages.
Robin B.: I think that's a good point, too, Qarin.
AlexPolikowsky4: Thanks Pam and everyone.
Capn Franko: For my mom, my nephews/nieces who kew here LOVED her as a grandmother. Oh well, the reality is that my kids only know her through stories, which has its own charm.
Robin B.: Cosplaying is all about pretending to be another person!
Deb Lewis: All play is trying on other people, other personalities, other things.
Marta Pires: True, Deb.
AlexPolikowsky4: I love COSPLAY and my kids love to do it too.
Robin B.: It has actually helped Senna to understand other people, by getting into a character.
Capn Franko: My life is cosplay. Whatever I wear is a costume to me.
Bernadette: Mummy was convinced that we were too obsessive, that we'd grow up stunted or something. She took them away several times to try and stop us playing with them, but we knew them so well we'd just play without them.
Virginia Warren: My friends and I used to play months-long narrative games with main characters and supporting characters, costumes, backgrounds...
Rippy: Pam you once mentioned that your mom in law lived with you. How long did she live with your family and was she critical of the kids?
AlexPolikowsky4: OH no Bernadette!
Pam Sorooshian: My kids had characters that they took on over and over again. Gigi doesn't have sisters to do it with so it might look at little more strange or extreme for her to be doing it with her parents.
Bernadette: But three of my sisters now write, one has had several short stories published.
Pam Sorooshian: She only lived with us for one year.
JennyC: Chamille orchestrated all the neighbor kids. She gave them all roles to play.
Qarin: Do you think, Alex, that when she is one of her other characters, that she still knows that she is *her*? If there were a sudden big event while she was someone else, an emergency or something, who would she be?
Pam Sorooshian: She was critical, but in another language to my husband and I asked him not to tell me what she said. I blithely pretended I didn't know and we did fine.
AlexPolikowsky4: Good point, Pam!
Bernadette: I can see a direct line between that imaginative play and the depth of characters we developed and the way my sisters write now.
Virginia Warren: Ha, ha Frank, I have a dress that's my "normal mom" costume.
Capn Franko: Hooray for "mom" Virginia! (grin)
Capn Franko: I look good in a suit or tuxedo. Bwahahaha!
JennyC: Chamille had a huge and vivid imagination with many made up stories.
Robin B.: You look awesome in a tuxedo, Frank. So does Ross.
Robin B.: But he hates it!
Capn Franko: All guys do. It's the essentaily property of a tux.
Pam Sorooshian: Alex - if Gigi is being one character and you say, "I need to talk to Gigi," what happens?
Capn Franko: Ah, I like it. I enjoy dressing up and down, just not middle.
Robin B.: Yes. It's sexy.
Robin B.: Ross is a jeans and t-shirt guy, so he's uncomfortable in a suit.
Pam Sorooshian: My husband wears suits. To weddings. Nowhere else ever.
AlexPolikowsky4: She knows who she is even if we call her and ask her something directly. It’s all pretend. Lovely pretend play and my husband is not exactly worried as much as he’s concerned he’s being negligent by not looking at her pretend play a bit deeper.
Capn Franko: Well, I'm comfy both those looks. Not in "slacks" and a collared shirt or Izod. Ick! Feels *wrong*
AlexPolikowsky4: She always answers as herself straight away!
Capn Franko: Yeah. She's fine. Just gotta show him that she is.
Pam Sorooshian: So can you point that out to her dad. That might be important to him - that she's not losing herself in her pretend character.
Marta Pires: Maybe it would help for Brian to look at Gigi right here and now, and not at what he thinks she might become in a distant future? Not wanting to dismiss his concerns, but it might help to focus on who Gigi is right now, what makes her eyes sparkle and not look for what might be?
AlexPolikowsky4: Good point Pam. Thanks.
Robin B.: Maybe he has a hard time pretending along with her and that makes him uncomfortable?
Robin B.: Because he has so little experience?
JennyC: That's probably true, if he never really did that kind of play.
Pam Sorooshian: Multiple personality disorder - which apparently doesn't really exist as popular culture would have us believe, is when someone disassociates from their own self because it is too painful to be them.
Robin B.: I think there's very little chance that a child of seven, raised in the sweet and happy way she is, is dissociating!
Pam Sorooshian: Yes - and maybe what he really needs are pointers about how to respond to her when she's pretending to be someone else. How to sort of exaggeratedly say her pretend name as in, "Oh how ARE you today misstress so-and so?"
AlexPolikowsky4: Those are all great points you all made. Thank you everyone. I knew I would get some good ideas from you all.
AlexPolikowsky4: Like help him pretend play! Great idea Pam!
Marta Pires: It's almost time. Does anyone have a last, quick question for Pam?
Robin B.:
Pam Sorooshian: Most of us can probably remember that slightly stilted way of talking when playing pretend?
Capn Franko: Wow! The time zipped by. I'm gonna go imagine some lunch and pretend to be a hungry teenager named "Roscoe."
JennyC: Oh, yes!
Pam Sorooshian: But I bet he can't remember anything like that.
Pam Sorooshian: Roscoe?
Pam Sorooshian: That's your hungry teenager name?
Pam Sorooshian: LOL
Robin B.: Pam, do you think you can just come with Roya to Life is Good. I'm sure we have midwives to attend if the baby wants to be born in the hotel.
AlexPolikowsky4: This was a great chat! Pam you need to come more often!
JennyC: P Cultrane
Laurie: Here's one article I found...but there are lots out there touting the benefits of pretending and role playing which is so creative! http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/beau...
Capn Franko: Still here. Yes, Pam?
Marta Pires: Ha, Frank!
Rippy: I wanted to ask for some tips on living with my mom (who lives with us for about 3 months every year on average). She's pretty Tiger Momish and I'm very unschoolish. She's not overtly critical, but compares our kids to kids she sees on television doing really spectacular stuff that 99% of other kids just don't do.
Pam Sorooshian: Your southern roots are showing Frank.
Capn Franko: Sure. Why not?
Capn Franko: Is Roscoe Southern?
Pam Sorooshian: I think so.
Pam Sorooshian: Never met one in California, anyway.
JennyC: Roscoe was in the Dukes of Hazard.
Robin B.: My sil calls Ross "Roscoe P. Coltrane" I don't know why!
Pam Sorooshian: Rippy - what does she say when you suggest that those are not fair comparisons?
Marta Pires: I *loved* that show, Jenny!
Capn Franko: Ok, then. I'll be Alcee. Not that is a good Cajun name.
Rippy: She is sort of silent and looking unhappy.
Pam Sorooshian: Al C. ?
Capn Franko: Al-say.
Robin B.: She wants to believe in the dream that all kids are like TV kids.
Capn Franko: Accent aigu which I can't type here.
JennyC: Being compared to fictional tv characters is a bit unfair!
AlexPolikowsky4: Do the kids seem to mind? Or even pay attention to it?
I would brag about what my kids do and be super proud of them. She may be wanting something to brag about to her friends.
Rippy: Yes she does Robin!
Pam Sorooshian: Rippy - you smile anyway and say, "They're fine, mom. Just love 'em as they are. That's what grandmas are for."
Qarin: rippy: i live with my mom, too, now. at her house. she's not tiger-mom, but she's "gee, they should really try school" because structure and seems to think that because my 9yo never went to preschool or kindergarten that getting to do crafts in a group (like she's doing now in an art class) is new to her.
Marta Pires: Sweet, Pam.
AlexPolikowsky4: What Robin said! You can just say: OH but he is a TV character not a real kid!
JennyC: Maybe, find her different shows to watch with more realistic children.
Rippy: Thanks Pam, I will do that. I think I need to be consistent and do that.
Qarin: But, I have to go now, to go be late for park day.
Robin B.: Bye Qarin. Miss you!
AlexPolikowsky4: That was nice, Pam.
Robin B.: Even though I didn't see you, much.
Capn Franko: Thanks, Pam! See ya!
Qarin:
Qarin: Life Is Good?
AlexPolikowsky4: Bye Qarin!
Robin B.: Yes! Are you coming?
Marta Pires: Pam, thank you so much for coming. The chat was great!!!
Pam Sorooshian: Bye all - thanks for coming. Sorry I can't come regularly. I still go hand out at our park days on Wednesdays - without my kids.
Qarin: Oh, yes, definitely.
Capn Franko: LiG for us for sure.
Robin B.: Oh, hallelujah!
Qarin: We've set aside money from the tax refund specifically for travel and hotel.
Marta Pires: And sorry for not being here to greet you...
Pam Sorooshian: But in a few months I'll be hanging out at park days with my new grandson!
JennyC: I'm going!
Robin B.: So Pam. You didn't answer my question.
Qarin: pam: faceLA park days?
Pam Sorooshian: What was your quetion robin?
AlexPolikowsky4: Back to my Korean Drama!!!!! Thank you guys!
Pam Sorooshian: Qarin - no Dragon Tree.
Marta Pires: Thank you very much everyone for coming too!
Qarin: i think i knew that.
Qarin: ok.
Robin B.: Couldn't you please bring Roya to Life is Good? We have midwives.
Pam Sorooshian: Although I have friends at Face-LA too!
Qarin:
Pam Sorooshian: Ah yes.
JennyC: fun chat!
Qarin: i haven't gotten past the west valley yet.
Pam Sorooshian: well - due date is May 17th.
JennyC: bye all!
Robin B.: She'll be late.
Pam Sorooshian: So - think she'll be ready to travel by then?
JennyC left the chat
Marta Pires: Wow, already?
Pam Sorooshian: She'll probably be early.
Rippy: How exciting!
Marta Pires: My daughter was born May 15th. I love May!
I love May!
Robin B.: I'm so thrilled for you guys!
Robin B.: I was born in May, as was Jenny. Same day, in fact!
Pam Sorooshian: 9 weeks away.
Pam Sorooshian: My husband's bday is May 22.
Capn Franko: Ronnie is May 25.
Robin B.: Gemini party!
Pam Sorooshian: Yep
Robin B.: Yes, I get to wish her and Jenny a HB every year!
Pam Sorooshian: It would be cool if he arrived on my husband's birthday but she's not going to be late, I am very sure.
Capn Franko: Yep!
Pam Sorooshian: She's already having a lot of braxton-hicks contractions etc.
Robin B.: Wow!
Robin B.: Yeah, probably not late, then.
Rippy: Does she live close to you Pam?
Pam Sorooshian: Yes
Pam Sorooshian: 30 minutes.
Pam Sorooshian: She lives in Hollywood - right in the area where all the big stars live.
Bernadette: I had lots of Braxton-Hicks from early on with David, who came at 42 weeks.
Robin B.: She's near Colleen Paeff, too, then?
Pam Sorooshian: Her husband is the park ranger for the big huge park that borders Hollywood. Where the Hollywood sign is that you may have seen in movies.
Robin B.: Bernadette! Well, there ya go. You never can tell.
Pam Sorooshian: She's very very close to Colleen. Few blocks away.
Robin B.: I love that Silver Lake area. It's very cool.
Pam Sorooshian: Roya is in Los Feliz area.
Robin B.: Ah.
Rippy: I've seen the Hollywood sign. I think I visited it when I was younger. How nice to be able to visit a big park every day.
Robin B.: What an interesting job park ranger would be. My nephew would have loved to do that. But he's a banker. Ugh.
Pam Sorooshian: The big park is her yard.
Rippy: That will be fun for your grandson!
Pam Sorooshian: With coyotes and mountain lions and dear and all that.
Pam Sorooshian: No bears.
Marta Pires: Ladies, I've got to go take care of our dinner! (it's pizza night) Thanks again Pam! Bye everyone
Robin B.: Mountain lions are scary enough.
Robin B.: Bye Marta!
Rippy: Bye Marta!
Pam Sorooshian: Bye Marta! Thanks.
Robin B.: I'm off, as well. Fabric shopping with Senna!
Rippy: Bye Robin!
Pam Sorooshian: Roya's husband sets up video cameras that record mountain lions mostly at night.
Serah: Me too.
Robin B.: Thank you Pam. Please come back again, soon.
Bernadette: Thanks everyone and goodbye.
Robin B. left the chat
Serah: Bye everyone
Serah left the chat
Serah left the chat
Pam Sorooshian: The Sierra Club is using his videos for some science stuff.
Bernadette left the chat
Pam Sorooshian: Bye
Laurie: Thanks! Bye
Laurie left the chat
Rippy: Thanks everyone. Bye!
