Choosing to Be Happy

http://chatnotes-unschooling.blogspot.pt/2014/05/may-7-chat-on-choosing-to-be-happy.html

From Sandra's notes for today's chat:

"I don't want to talk about choosing to tell our children to be happy, but choosing, for ourselves, happiness over grunty, grumpy negativity.

It occurred to me this morning (May 5, 2014) that *maybe* too-often recurring depression might be an addiction to negativity. I want to show people what I'm thinking about that and let them dismantle it as false, or add evidence if I might be on a trail to something useful."

Marta Pires joined the chat

Sara Vaz joined the chat 

AlexPolikowsky4 joined the chat 

Marta Pires: Hi there ladies!

Robin B. joined the chat 

Sandra Dodd joined the chat 

Sandra Dodd: Thanks for bringing the topic description, Marta!

Sandra Dodd: Hello, other people.

Marta Pires: You're welcome. 

Sara Vaz: Hi everyone!!! 

Misa Knight joined the chat

Rippy joined the chat 

Rippy: Hi everyone!

Marta Pires: Great topic today!

Sandra Dodd: Rippy, I'm glad you're here. I'm working (through some shame) on getting photos put into the online-version of the interview with you.

Sandra Dodd: But to others here, Rippy is kind of a whiz at happiness. 

Sandra Dodd: So I thought I would say that.

Robin B.: 

Sandra Dodd: I am lately a whiz at procrastination. But I have been VERY happy sleeping! Not having stress dreams or any kind of bad dreams. Just sleeping. 

Misa Knight: What a nice thing to be a whiz at!

Sandra Dodd: And it's a good thing I have all these years of experience at recognizing that sometimes someone just needs to sleep more than other times, so I'm letting myself sleep.

Marta Pires: She is!!! I second what Sandra says!  Although I don't Rippy personally yet, our e-mails skype talks are usually very fun and happy. 

Rippy: Thanks Sandra! Funny enough I had another interview today - complete with a makeup artist and photographer. It was a bit nerve wrecking.

Sandra Dodd: Sometimes in my bed, sometimes in the guest room, just whichever bed is closest. 

Sandra Dodd: Makeup artist!? So for a magazine? About home ed?

Marta Pires: I'm so glad you're resting, Sandra.

Rippy: It was for a magazine. Flair. They contacted me and I said yes because the home ed decision may be made on June 30th. So I figure every little bit will help.

Rippy: I'm so happy you're resting too Sandra. I hope you sleep looooots.

Sandra Dodd: Misa meant Rippy's specialty, not mine I think: Misa Knight: What a nice thing to be a whiz at! (nice to be good at happiness)

Misa Knight: Yes, though resting is good, too, Sandra.

Sandra Dodd: Well the good thing for your family, Rippy, is there's always Canada. 

Rippy: Or maybe she meant that you're a whiz at sleeping  Gisele and Graham are whizzes at sleeping 

Misa Knight: Or procrastination. You can procrastinate with other things you need to do.

Sandra Dodd: And there's the rest of Europe, right? Can you legally move to another EU country and live there, as people can move from state to state in the U.S. without asking anyone?

Rippy: Yes - there is always Canada. But most of Europe is available too.

Rippy: One part of Spain (a really nice part) it's legal and Portugal is legal too. Basically not Germany and Sweden, but other places are still good.

Robin B.: In B.C. (Canada) homeschooling is easy-breezy.

Marta Pires: Portugal!!!  Come to Portugal! 

Rippy: We can legally move to another EU country and live, work, and homeschool there without asking anyone.

Sandra Dodd: Then you should be in magazines all the time.

Rippy: I don't think any place is easy-breezy in Europe Robin  The UK and Ireland seem the easiest, but they are also having problems regularly.

Rippy: Portugal is lovely and warm. It would be great!

AlexPolikowsky4: I am glad you are sleeping well Sandra 

Rippy: And you're there. 

Robin B.: I'd take Portugal first!

Sandra Dodd: Just don't eat that bread and cheese they put on the table when you get to the restaurant. It's like the liquor in a fridge in a hotel.

Marta Pires: Nope. No place in Europe is easy-breezy.

Marta Pires: Yay!!! 

Sandra Dodd: (Marta has that list of things.) 

Marta Pires: Hahahahaha Sandra

Marta Pires: So true!

Robin B.: Not every province in Canada is easy. B.C.'s the best.

Sandra Dodd: I want to take you to a restaurant here, Marta. A couple of them. To amaze you. 

Marta Pires: Jihong posted a video a while ago about the things you'll love and hate about Portugal and one of them was exactly that. 

Robin B.: 

Sandra Dodd: Oh that's probably what I saw then.

Rippy: We figure we might keep needing to move countries in Europe if homeschooling becomes illegal in one country after the other. But we're fine with that.

Sandra Dodd: You've been a missionary before. 

Sandra Dodd: You might be one again!

Rippy: Moving that is. Not the homeschooling becoming illegal.

Marta Pires: 

Rippy: A homeschooling missionary. Sounds fun 

AlexPolikowsky4: Brian likes to know that we could move to Brazil. It is not legal to homeschool there but they are changing things it seems/

Sandra Dodd: Do any of you know of mainstream books or sites or philosophies that recommend against watching the news or reading papers or collecting negative stories or being involved with politics if you have young children?

Sandra Dodd: I'm hoping there are others, and that I'm not the first person to make that pile of recommendations.

Sandra Dodd: I've heard other people say they stopped watching local news when they had a baby, because it's depressing.

Rippy: I'm pretty sure I've heard that advice on some TED Talks, but I can't remember which ones.

Sandra Dodd: You could move to another state, and take your cows!

Robin B.: Here's something: http://www.parenting.com/article/tv-news...

AlexPolikowsky4: My mom never like the news because of sad stories. She always avoided them. I honestly like the news but I don't get so caught up on the negative ones and try to look for positives. GoodNews Network is a good one.

Robin B.: And another: http://www.commonsensemedia.org/blog/exp...

Sandra Dodd: But that first one is about children. I'm talking about the damage to the parents' peace and stability. 

Sandra Dodd: Both of them are about children and the news.

Sandra Dodd: I think it's harmful to adults.

AlexPolikowsky4: I have asked about moving to Canada with the cows Sandra. Great place for Diary Cows!

Robin B.: Oh, right. Not so much focused on parents of young children.

Sandra Dodd: I think childless people should watch all they want, but parents would do better spending that time with their kids.

Sandra Dodd: Some people like to think they make the world better by "being aware" (knowing the details of what happened at a city council meeting when protestors overran the podium, for example, here in Albuquerque this week).

Robin B.: I stopped watching the news when Senna was young. It's only recently that I even turn it on. I like fictional crime better.

Sandra Dodd: It happened, whether 100 people know it or 500,000 know it.

AlexPolikowsky4: ^^^ I agree Sandra!^^ Focus on your kids

Sandra Dodd: It's no different if 500,001 know, except for that one person.

Sandra Dodd: It doesn't make his life better.

Robin B.: I don't think being aware makes the world better.

Sandra Dodd: Fictional crime is better written. 

Robin B.: I think if you do something about an issue, that might make the world better. But wait until your kids are grown.

Robin B.: Focusing on them makes the world better, anyway!

Misa Knight: I have never seen a single person watch the news and say, "I'm so much happier now!" but I constantly hear, "Ugh. The news is so depressing."

AlexPolikowsky4: I love fictional crime. I am not a negative person. I am a very content happy person.

Robin B.: The kids, I mean.

Sandra Dodd: Maybe news should be more like websites. If you want more, go there. The plane that went down a couple of months ago was on Australian news all the time, because it was near there and Australia was helping with the search. Details of how pissed off some of the families were wasn't helping anyone. And no one could help with that search who wasn't already helping.

Marta Pires: I rarely watched the news before Conchinha was born precisely because of feeling down after watching them. My dad would usually criticize me because he thought being up-to-date on what's happening in the world would help me be knowledgable. I don't watch any now. 

Misa Knight: I follow some local news stations on Twitter, but other than that, if something important happens, people will tell me.

Rippy: I googled "news is bad for you" and this was the first hit: http://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/ap...

Sandra Dodd: I think you're right about that, Misa. Unless I learn that there's an arts event I want to go to, or they have a funny video, it's a total drain. 

Robin B.: Knowledge about the world is but a google away. A steady diet of depressing things can't help anyone be hopeful.

Rippy: Graham said he recently read something in the most mainstream Dutch newspaper about news being bad for you.

Marta Pires: I agree, Robin.

Sandra Dodd: Oh, this is awesome from what Rippy brought:

Sandra Dodd: News is toxic to your body. It constantly triggers the limbic system. Panicky stories spur the release of cascades of glucocorticoid (cortisol). This deregulates your immune system and inhibits the release of growth hormones. In other words, your body finds itself in a state of chronic stress. High glucocorticoid levels cause impaired digestion, lack of growth (cell, hair, bone), nervousness and susceptibility to infections. The other potential side-effects include fear, aggression, tunnel-vision and desensitisation.

Rippy: He also read the Ruby Wax book, Sane New World, Taming the Mind and she talked about it too.

Sandra Dodd: And it says news acts as a drug. I'm so happy about THIS news! 

Sandra Dodd: I'm really glad there will be outside links in the chat transcript so it's not just crazy me and my crazy friends saying this.

Sandra Dodd: I was MUCH calmer when I stopped watching the news, when Kirby was little.

JennyC joined the chat

Robin B.: That's a really interesting article.

Sandra Dodd: Six or seven years before that, I had stopped watching any news that had to do with public schools. I would leave the room. 

AlexPolikowsky4: A local homeschool dad wanted to get involved with things to help the community and the world. He is a stay at home dad with three very young kids. I told him that if he wanted to make the world a better place that he should start by focusing in his kids and not in helping others. That was a sure way to make the world better. He did not like it.

JennyC: Sorry I'm late today!

Sandra Dodd: I'm glad you're here, Jenny.

Robin B.: I know folks who seem to seek out the negative and are proud of it. Jenny isn't one of them!

JennyC: Me too!

Robin B.: Hi Jenny!

Robin B.: One of the happiest people I know.

Robin B.: She helps me be happier.

Sandra Dodd: I think, Alex, when people hear ideas like that helping their own kids WILL help the world, they reject it because it seems too "my kid will change the world."

Sandra Dodd: I remember they always used to interview mothers of presidents, to ask how she hot-housed him into becoming a president.

Sandra Dodd: That's out of fashion now, but when I was a kid it was IT.

JennyC: That's nice, Robin!

Robin B.: Nice, maybe. True, certainly.

Sandra Dodd: The idea that a mother's job was to raise her children to change the world was deemed sexist after a while, and a taboo subject.

Sandra Dodd: So dads don't have it at all, in any way, I don't think. (I could be wrong.)

JennyC: There was an unschooled kid, now adult, that just did a blog post about unschoolers not needing to be grandiose in order to be good and happy and successful. http://yes-i-can-write.blogspot.ca/2014/05/in-praise-of-unexceptional-because.html

Sandra Dodd: It would be hard, probably, for Alex to express to that dad how having good and happy and successful (if not grandiose) kids IS a way to improve the world.

Robin B.: I'm not raising my daughter to change the world. I'm hoping that what we do (being kinder, supporting her, making learning central to our lives) will change the world in its own way.

Sandra Dodd: Every neighbor who smiles makes the neighborhood better.

Robin B.: Yes.

Sandra Dodd: Some of you might have noticed a little tussle on my facebook page. I had put up "May the fourth be with you" for star wars day. Someone I have known for 20 years came and went Eeyore on it.

Robin B.: Saw that.

Sandra Dodd: So I objected and he justified and it went to side conversation where I cut him NO slack because I know him in person (though he lives across the country) and I know his wife (they are childless).

Sandra Dodd: In that conversation, I had some thoughts.

Sandra Dodd: He said he had been to lots of doctors and taken lots of anti-depressants and nothing helped.

Sandra Dodd: I said taking anti-depressants without changing one's habits and attitude was like taking pills to cure alcoholism, but drinking as much as ever.

Rippy: We have a lovely neighbor in our garden village and Graham just said about her a few days ago that he wonders if she realizes that she has probably helped people live longer (and happier) lives just because when you walk past her it's like walking past a ray of sunshine.

Sandra Dodd: I hope he will write her a letter that says so, Rippy.  You could deliver it with flowers. 

Marta Pires: So sweet, Rippy.

AlexPolikowsky4: He does not like me now. I do not know what happened. Every time someone talks about unschooling or asks about it and I send a link he also answers offering to talk to the person about it because there is not only one way to unschool. They are totally against TV, computers ( for the kids only) and limit those kids in what they eat and what they have.

Sandra Dodd: You would be a ray of sunshine in HER life, too!

Marta Pires: Sweet neighbor and sweet Graham. 

Sandra Dodd: Alex, I would let that one slip away.

Sandra Dodd: He wants to control.

JennyC: Yes, slip away!

Robin B.: Yes, let it go. (in Frozen-song!)

Sandra Dodd: My dad said once I should just decide to be happy, but I didn't know how and I thought he was crazy. I wish I had said "what do you mean?" or "how would I do that?" But I was 15 and angsty and really upset about something.

Rippy: Great idea about delivering the message with flowers. I think we'll make her cry. But happy tears.

Robin B.: 

Sandra Dodd: But I know now what my dad meant

Sara Vaz: 

Sandra Dodd: Don't stand there while she reads it. Hand her the flowers and scoot so she can have her own private reading. Every friend she shows it to will say "He's right!"

JennyC: The older I get the more I realize that I only want happy pleasant people in my life. I know there are plenty of mentally ill people in the world who do terrible things and I should be sympathetic, but I'm not so much anymore. I can feel bad for them from a distance and keep them far away from me.

Sandra Dodd: So it will be a perpetual gift. 

Marta Pires: 

AlexPolikowsky4: I believe in deciding to be happy. deciding to look at your life with gratitude and what you have. Of course my kids are happy, our home is loving and we have food and shelter. SO that helps 

Sandra Dodd: You've helped people already, Jenny. I have, too. I've done my time trying to rescue and aid and abet drunks and druggies and the perpetually depressed. It's okay for me to say "I've done enough now, and want to lock my door and screen my calls."

Robin B.: I started the #100happydays thing on FB (though I wasn't sure at first - I'll explain later). I'm a bit behind on the daily thing, but it has helped me see the beauty and happiness and joy in some everyday things that I wouldn't really pay attention to.

Robin B.: Happiness means paying attention, I think, to the good things.

AlexPolikowsky4: Being surrounded by happy people is wonderful. I do not want to hang out with negative people either. I am not talking about someone having a moment.

Marta Pires: Yes, Alex.

Sandra Dodd: Situational unhappiness is understandable. But the permanent gloom some people gather and carry around is another thing entirely.

Robin B.: Right, Alex.

JennyC: That 100happydays thing has really shown me that the things that really bring me joy are the little things, like flowers and a new hat or some small treat or gesture, or a day that went well because everything went smoothly.

Robin B.: Right, Jenny.

Sandra Dodd: My dad should have said to me "Happiness means paying attention to the good things." You could have advised my dad, Robin. 

Robin B.: I think I want to keep it going past 100 days!

Sandra Dodd: What was your reservation at first, Robin?

Robin B.: Aw, thanks, Sandra! I think I would have liked your dad. 

Sandra Dodd: I liked when they did gratitude posts in November on facebook.

Sandra Dodd: "they."

Sandra Dodd: I did it "monkey see, monkey do" style when others did.

JennyC: Me too.

Marta Pires: 

Sandra Dodd: I liked my dad too, all except that stupid idea he had that people could just decide to be happy. 

Sandra Dodd: And when he was old, he married a young woman with two young children, and was a happy dad to them, and left them two houses and some money.

Sandra Dodd: Now I see that and I think it was sweet, and she took care of him when he was having a hard time walking.

Robin B.: In explanation of my reservations on the happydays tag: I saw a lot of food posts (about gluten-free stuff) and that put me off. Then I thought "why are people doing this, anyway?" when I was feeling curmudgeonly. Then I let it sit with me for a bit and decided to try it. That was good for me, the process. I see that I do that with lots of things. Push them away until I can really think about them.

JennyC: I have a few bits of extended family on FB, most of them are negative and entrenched in poverty and religious salvation. One of my aunts posted a picture of flowers on her wall, instead of that other stuff, and did so because she was inspired by my happydays photos.

Sandra Dodd: But at the time I was resentful and rolled my eyes a lot because she was my age and I figured she should have used birth control or been nicer to the father of her children so he didn't leave. I was seeing all the negatives and not the positives.

AlexPolikowsky4: I am always looking at the positive.

Rippy: I love perpetual gifts. Which reminds me that I was just talking about happiness with a friend of mine. I told her I only realized recently that I do something that is probably unusual. If something funny/amusing has happened to me in the past, I replay it in my mind years later. It seems like out of nowhere, this memory (from childhood, teenage years, young motherhood) comes to mind and it makes me laugh out loud. And then it can be awkward explaining why I'm laughing about a time when my cousin went to a neighbors house to get an egg for a recipe that we really wanted to make. Then she tripped and fell. But from the ground, one little arm rose up and she said "And the egg is safe". I have probably relived that little childhood memory hundreds of times and laughed. With that particular cousin or just by myself or sometimes sitting in a cafe.

Sandra Dodd: Nice, Rippy.

Robin B.: Jenny, I have a friend whose life has been rough (single mom with crazy ex, breast cancer survivor) who said she's been loving my happydays posts, too. So it spreads the happiness. That's a really good thing.

Sandra Dodd: We borrowed eggs one night from a nice neighbor, at 9:45 p.m. Two of the kids went with me. I realized just about the time we knocked on the door that it was quite late for a mom and two awake kids to say "We want to make a cake!"

Sandra Dodd: But the neighbor was sweet.

AlexPolikowsky4: I am really happy my brother is leaving next Wednesday. He is a nice guy but so much like my dad. Negative. Not extreme but bad enough that it aggravates me. I feel bad because he is going through some bad times but after a month I am ready to send him home.

Sandra Dodd: Probably I should have just driven to the all-night grocery store, or to a 7-11.

Sandra Dodd: And not knocked on a door so late. 

Sandra Dodd: But I would've been happy to give any of my neighbors foodstuffs late at night.

AlexPolikowsky4: Love the egg story Rippy 

JennyC: But Sandra, you made her life a tiny bit more interesting!

Sandra Dodd: Then again, I've had neighbors and relatives of neighbors come over for a ride to a liquor store, or to borrow money, and that's not cool.

Rippy: I love it when my neighbors come by and ask for foodstuffs. 

Sandra Dodd: I do too.

Robin B.: I think reliving those happy moments can really help. My husband uses that technique with race drivers he coaches. He asks them to replay a really good race in their mind and feel the feelings, smell the smells, hear the engine noise, etc. It helps put the person in a good state of mind.

Rippy: Thanks Alex, I love it too. I have such funny cousins 

AlexPolikowsky4: I have wonderful neighbors across the street! They are awesome. They NEVER ask for anything and do tons for us. We try to hard to do something for them but they rarely accept. They are so wonderful

Sandra Dodd: There's a song that used to be in hymnals. I know the first verse and chorus. It has a choppy, happy little rhythm, and harmonies and backup parts that are separate from the melody.

Sandra Dodd: I'll put the lyrics line by line.

Sandra Dodd: When upon life's billows you are tempest tossed

Sandra Dodd: When you are discouraged thinking all is lost

Sandra Dodd: Count your many blessings, angels will attend

Sandra Dodd: Help and comfort give you til your journey's end

Sandra Dodd: Count your blessings, name them one by one

Sandra Dodd: Count your blessings, see what God hath done

Sandra Dodd: Count your blessings, name them one by one (that part gets separate words, and slows down to a stop on one by one)

Sandra Dodd: Count your many blessings, see what God hath done

Sandra Dodd: But even for atheists, it works. 

Sandra Dodd: Maybe I can embed a sound file in the chat transcript. It's a happy sounding song.

AlexPolikowsky4: My mom may drive me crazy sometimes but she is a very positive person. I think genes are a factor for sure as I am more like my mom and my brother is definitely more like my father.

Rippy: We live in a pretty tiny little house and one of the reasons we love living here is good neighbors. I think it's such good fortune to have good neighbors.

Robin B.: I found this! http://youtube.com/watch?v=PT5qk8bx3ZM

Robin B.: I like it!

Sandra Dodd: Oh ho!!

AlexPolikowsky4: Hanging out with people that complain all the time does rub off. I have notice that. I stay away from groups of women that complain about their kids and about their husbands.

Sandra Dodd: I bet I was quoting the last verse.

JennyC: I've always liked that aspect of church. Counting blessings, being kind and giving to others. Those things, I guess, I took to heart, even if I rejected the whole package deal.

Robin B.: Sounds like a British choir.

Sandra Dodd: Yes, that's more elaborate than the hymnal version.

Sandra Dodd: And the rhythm is more like a march, the way they're doing it.

Robin B.: I like the tambourine!

Sandra Dodd: And they don't put the big slow-down on the penultimate line. 

Sandra Dodd: I don't like the tambourine, I was just thinking. So you're a happier person than I am, Robin. 

Robin B.: Snort!

JennyC: Artistic license?

Robin B.: I haven't heard it any other way. I might feel the same if I knew your version, Sandra.

Sandra Dodd: A little exhausting, that style. Maybe they have a tambourine and sing fast because they're (possibly, I'm guessing) Salvation Army.

Sandra Dodd: That was exciting. Too exciting! 

JennyC: I wonder sometimes if people who grew up in awful homes, just have sadder memories that have buried the happier ones.

Robin B.: Probably! Imagining uniforms.

Sandra Dodd: But it does, really, undo the hangdog whiny aspect of a mood to start thinking of what's good about it.

AlexPolikowsky4: I think gratitude is big. Having gratitude for the little things around you add up. I am thankful for all the little things. Even my noisy birds make me extremely happy!

Sandra Dodd: My car is dirty. I had a drudgy thought about whether I should wash it myself or take it to the car wash. I could take it to the coin-op car wash, or to the one they use in Breaking Bad, which is a mile from here and they do a great job.

Robin B.: That's where unschooling can come in, right, Jenny? Parenting your kids how you wanted to be treated can heal a lot of sadness.

JennyC: When Chamille was little, I came upon an idea that childhood memories last a whole lifetime and since you only get one childhood, I wanted my own kids to have happy memories to reflect on when they are older.

Robin B.: I'd go for that reason alone, Sandra, that it's the Breaking Bad car wash!

Bernadette joined the chat

Sandra Dodd: But instead of "oh, woe, my car is dirty," I should think "My car runs! It has gas in it! I have a mini-van even though my kids are grown! AND I have enough money to consider paying someone else to wash it!"

AlexPolikowsky4: I vote Breaking Bad car wash! and get some pictures!

Rippy: I remember a time in Australia when a girl I had been friends with for about a week ran out of money. We tried sleeping in the car, but then a police officer came and told us we weren't allowed to do that. So we were sitting on the lawn of the hostel and she was very depressed. I looked at her and said, "We'll figure it out. It could be worse". Just a ball came flying out of nowhere and hit me in the face. It stunned more than it hurt and I said "you see. It got worse". And it made her laugh. She got happier after that  And the police officer said he'd rent us a room together for super cheap. A few days later she met her future husband.

AlexPolikowsky4: and being a dirty car is great! You can now take it to the Breaking Bad car wash!

Robin B.: Love that story, Rippy!

Marta Pires: Hahahaha Rippy!

Rippy: Thanks Robin 

Robin B.: This chat is helping me be happier.

Robin B.: I could have been watching the noon news. 

Sandra Dodd: You can even have a happy story from getting hit in the face with a ball, Rippy. You're a marvel.

AlexPolikowsky4: Love it Rippy!

Marta Pires: 

JennyC: I love that story!

AlexPolikowsky4: Robin you made me laugh a few times yesterday! Unicorn pooping rainbows and all!

Bernadette: I brought my son some banana milk earlier, because he was eating some hot curry and I thought he might need it. He said thanks and drank some, then said "is this banana milk?". I said yes, and he said "thank you for knowing I love banana milk"

Sandra Dodd: So is depression an addiction to things like "No, that's a stupid story," and "People DO need to know what's on the news," and "I don't know why you people are being so cheery when there are wars in the world"?

Rippy: It was sort of divine comedy the ball coming out of no where. You "have to" laugh at things like that 

AlexPolikowsky4: I like banana milk too! Sweet!

Sandra Dodd: Bernadette! Is this an additive syrup or powder, or did you blend a real banana with milk?

Robin B.: Alex, I was on a roll yesterday. Even in a sarcastic kind of space, I made myself laugh.

Sandra Dodd: I know banana milk shake, but I do not know banana milk. TELL ME!

Robin B.: Yes, Bernadette. What is it???

Robin B.: I remember Banana Quik. But I'm sure that's not it.

Bernadette: It was lovely not only that he expressed gratitude, but that he's a child who spontaneously expresses it, because he feels that way. He's consciously enjoying his life.

Sandra Dodd: Yeah, yeah, lovely. WHAT IS IT?

Sandra Dodd: (joking, Bernadette)

Robin B.: :::snort:::

AlexPolikowsky4: Gigi is like that!!

Sandra Dodd: (Your story is very sweet.)

Marta Pires: I've used that thought every time I can't park the car, Sandra.  It can take me up to an hour to park the car near our house sometimes and if it were for the old me, I would probably be upset, but now I think "how cool is it that I've got a car to park and I can listen to some cool music and I can have some wind coming through the window, etc." 

JennyC: Well, when confronted with a situation, you can either laugh or be upset, and being upset does nothing. It doesn't change the situation, it only changes your perception of it.

Rippy: Jenny - I was like that too about my kids childhood. I hoped (and still do!) that when they are adults and someone asks what their childhood was like that they close their eyes and smile and their memories are filled with laughter and sunshine and playing and hanging out and feeling loved.

Rippy: Banana milk is awesome!! We have it here. Come visit!

Robin B.: WHAT IS IT????

Bernadette: Banana Nesquik.

Sandra Dodd: I've seen Marta's neighborhood. She does not mean she's unable to park a car. She can park a car in a spot about the length of the car IF she can find one! 

Robin B.: It is Quik!!!!

Rippy: Milk that tastes like bananas.

Robin B.: I loved that when I was a kid.

Sandra Dodd: Okay. 

Sandra Dodd: I have had that.

Marta Pires: Hahahaha Sandra 

Robin B.: "Milk that tastes like bananas" bwahahahaha!

Sandra Dodd: I thought it was something new and mysterious, like coconut milk, but from a banana. :0)

Robin B.: Yes, me, too!

Rippy: Nope. Just banana flavored milk. 

AlexPolikowsky4: This morning I saw that Brian spent a lot of money to send some cow medication to a friend in Canada. I was upset at first. Then I calmed down and thought that this is his friend and Brian never does things like that. So I chose to be happy for him to help his friend. It is a rare thing.

Sandra Dodd: Or something exotic and European that hadn't gotten to me yet, off in the wilds of New Mexico.

Robin B.: Yummm.

Robin B.: Aw, Alex.

Robin B.: He's a good man, Charlie Brown.

Rippy: What a sweet thing for Brian to do.

Sandra Dodd: Did you tell him you were upset, or were you secretly upset

JennyC: I was up very late last night. As I came home, I thought, geez my house is a crazy dump right now, and then my next thought was, but I'm glad to be home and I will wake up happy to be here.

Robin B.: 

AlexPolikowsky4: My first reaction was to say something. If I had not learned so much from you all and unschooling I would have ragged on him big time. I am happy I am much more mindful today than I was even yesterday.

Robin B.: Were you clubbing, Jenny? 

Sandra Dodd: I went to sleep with LOTS of dirty dishes piled around, and thought "tomorrow."

Sandra Dodd: It was a mess this morning, but a peaceful mess, because Keith was at work and it wasn't in anyone's way. It was nicer to do it with the sun shining.

AlexPolikowsky4: I did not tell him Sandra. I had just done chores with him and it was really nice and I was chatting with my sister when I saw the receipt for Fed Ex. It gave me time to calm down and think about it.

Sandra Dodd: And I'm glad my kitchen is up high and we don't have mice or bugs.

Robin B.: I did the same thing, Sandra.

Sandra Dodd: Good deal, Alex.

Sandra Dodd: Keith has started making smoothies—one or two a day.

Sandra Dodd: He does NOT put water in the glasses or the blender.

JennyC: I took Chamille to the club to meet with the owners of it. They are all vampires, I swear. I didn't WANT to take her there so late at night, but it was a nice ride and it was quiet out and we listened to music and talked.

Sandra Dodd: Part of me wants to bitch him out.

Sandra Dodd: And I haven't.

Sandra Dodd: He's not asking me to make the smoothies. They're good for him. He likes them. He's enjoying experimenting with different fruits and yogurts and juices.

AlexPolikowsky4: Gosh now I want banana and milk blended together to drink! You guys! I am going to go shopping today or tomorrow for bananas!

Sandra Dodd: If my part in it is to clean things with dried milky fruity gunk on them, I'll just do it nicely.

Sandra Dodd: I know perfectly well how to soak them in hot soapy water for a while before running them through that dishwasher I'm so happy to own.

Sandra Dodd: And I love Keith, and so I'm going to just do it.

JennyC: Chamille does the same thing Sandra! And just when I get most irritated with it and I want to say something, she'll do something sweet and all that angst washes away!

Marta Pires: 

Sandra Dodd: And be grateful that we have a blender and a dishwasher and can afford groceries.

AlexPolikowsky4: Good Sandra. I used to rag on Brian a lot. Life is so much easier and nicer since I extend to him the same mindfulness I use with my children.

Sandra Dodd: I had a successful feeling gratitude incident recently. The kind of time that I saw progress in me.

Sandra Dodd: and I will admit that part of it is age. I'm "older and wiser" and it helps that the kids are gone, so there are my disclaimers. 

Sandra Dodd: Our hot tub, which we have had for nearly ten years, is kind of a big wooden barrel, but straight sides.

Sandra Dodd: They are rated for five years. They don't expect them to last well more than five years.

Sandra Dodd: it started leaking, out the bottom somewhere, along the edge. It sounded like a hose was running. In one day, about 300 gallons came out. It was down to the benches.

Sandra Dodd: I've been saying for two years we should buy another one.

Sandra Dodd: Keith says "this one's fine" and I say "you're not the one who cleans it."

Rippy: I used to get silently upset (and sometimes not so silently upset) at Graham a few years ago. I would think to myself, "he's so lucky to have me. No one could put up with the stuff I'm putting up with". Then I read an article about reasons people divorce or maybe it was about traits that destroy relationships. I discovered quite humbly that I had ALL of those qualities and he had none of them. Not listening to me carefully enough wasn't on the list, but bringing up things from the past was.

Capn Franko joined the chat

Sandra Dodd: (As with many older couples, we're starting to repeat our little exchanges. He tells me how to feed the cats and I tell him why I do it my way, and other things.) 

Sandra Dodd: So I thought this, about that tub: If it can be fixed, cool. If it can't, cool.

Sandra Dodd: And that's what I thought.

Sandra Dodd: And Keith figured out how to fix it and we've used it twice and the water is staying in.

AlexPolikowsky4: Cool!

Sandra Dodd: We live walking distance from a big gym that has a pool, hot tub, sauna and steam room.

JennyC: Nice that he fixed it!

Sandra Dodd: So when I can't clean it anymore or when it really doesn't work, we have that option. 

Robin B.: It's a great tub!

Sandra Dodd: But it felt really good for me not to be upset about it one way or another. I didn't have the "I told you so" thoughts or any negative thing.

Robin B.: Nice.

Rippy: Cool the kinds of things Keith knows how to fix. 

Robin B.: Rippy, that must have been an eye-opener, that article.

Sandra Dodd: Yes. The one negative thought I had was that if this tub was broken and Keith didn't want to buy another one, that we had WAY too much firewood.

Robin B.: Like "Holy crap, that's me!"

Sandra Dodd: And it would get bark beetles and be messy to split.

Sandra Dodd: That's all the negativity I had. 

Sandra Dodd: Not so bad.

Robin B.: Not so bad, at all.

Rippy: It was an eye opener Robin. I wish I had saved it. I think I probably hid it so Graham didn't have the same thoughts as me "She so lucky to have me. No one could put up with the stuff I'm putting up with." 

Robin B.: 

Sandra Dodd: If you find a link to that list, Rippy, we can add it in here later (the transcript).

Robin B.: I could think about it this way "I'm so lucky to have him. No one could put up with the stuff he's been putting up with!"

Rippy: I tried to find it before Sandra, but I haven't been successful yet  If I had been active on the Always Learning list, I would not have misplaced it.

Rippy: That's great Robin!!

Sandra Dodd: I listened to a talk I gave because I'm working on a page on transformations. Keith was in the room and at one point I said we probably stayed together because Keith was so much nicer than I am or something like that, and he says something like "I didn't figure I needed to say so" or something (I'm misquoting) but it was kind of sweet, and it's true. He's been better at not saying things in anger than I ever have been.

Marta Pires: Bruno's the same. He's so much better at not saying things in anger than me.

AlexPolikowsky4: Brian is like that, Sandra. I am working on it and I am much better than I was.

AlexPolikowsky4: Is this one of those things that women are more likely to do than men?

Sandra Dodd: Probably.

Rippy: Graham's like that too. Maybe that is something that makes unschooling better in families?

JennyC: Margaux's been changing a lot of her behaviors lately. She's always been a very intense person and has said and done volatile things. So now, if old behaviors get brought up for any reason, she says, "I know I used to do that/say that, but I've figured out how not to. I'm doing much better."

Sandra Dodd: More verbal. Men learn to control their strength—not to hit, not even to get muscled up in anger.

Rippy: The dads being nicer.

Sandra Dodd: Clarify, please, Rippy.

Sandra Dodd: Women's strength is sometimes verbal, and they're less likely to learn to control it.

Sandra Dodd: But it's better if we do.

Rippy: I mean if the dads are fundamentally sweet and nice, the moms can soak it all up and benefit from their husband's example and in turn are sweeter to the children.

JennyC: My dad is like that.

Sandra Dodd: Nice, Jenny. Holly's still having some roughness, but has had a couple of weeks of "social engagements." With groups, and one-on-one, with female friends and some male potential boyfriends.

Rippy: A sweet nice circle where someone is being nice to someone all the time.

Sandra Dodd: I'm glad she's dating a bit. That breakup with Will took her down.

Sandra Dodd: Nice, Rippy.

Sandra Dodd: It can be that way, when the dads' fears relax about whether the kids will learn.

Robin B.: Senna is noticing things similar to that, as well, Jenny. She said (about Sakura-con) that neither she or her friends got really upset about anything this time. Maturity helps!

AlexPolikowsky4: I think moms being sweeter to dads makes them be sweeter to kids.

Robin B.: Holly's recovered from the measles okay, Sandra?

Robin B.: Alex, I think so, too.

Sandra Dodd: It turned out officially according to the state of New Mexico not to have been measles.

Robin B.: Oh!

Sandra Dodd: Might have been a reaction to some prescription meds.

Sandra Dodd: But yeah, she got well.

Robin B.: Weird. That was some reaction.

Sandra Dodd: This is her in the green shirt in the middle, if this can be seen.

Sandra Dodd: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=...

AlexPolikowsky4: The stay at home parent that is with the children more sets the tone in the family on how parents relate to the kids.

Robin B.: Sorry again about Will.

Sandra Dodd: I like the beer can of the girl with red hair. It's the state flag. I sent Adam Daniel a bottle cap like that from a bottle of that beer, but didn't know it was in cans. (Adam collects bottle caps.)

JennyC: That is a really cool picture!

JennyC: I love all the tattoos!

Robin B.: Alex, you have something there.

Sandra Dodd: it sounds so negative, but because of what you're saying, Alex, I would like to say to anyone who will listen "If you're negative and bitchy and cynical and mean your kids will be, too."

Robin B.: About setting the tone.

Sandra Dodd: But isn't that negative and bitchy and cynical and mean?

JennyC: I do that circle All. The. Time.

JennyC: Is it mean to call attention to it?

AlexPolikowsky4: Is it? or are you stating something you have observed?

JennyC: Chamille is braver than I am and will tell someone to stop being, whatever it is they are being.

AlexPolikowsky4: If the mother is complaining about the kids to the dad when dad is home , or course it will color the way dad feels about it and sees his kids too.

Sandra Dodd: Well all the time we're saying that the nicer and more peaceful the parent can be, the more peaceful their lives will be, and the child will be more compassionate.

Sandra Dodd: But that's more slow-motion, and though it works, it's not as immediate.

Robin B.: I think sarcasm and cynicism can rub off. Because I can be that way, I see it in Senna (not often, but sometimes). I'm now more aware of it.

JennyC: It's true though. Here's what I've noticed.... If you are negative and mean and bitchy, your kids will likely be that way too. I mean, it could go either way with some kids, some kids are just pleasant all around. But, if you are pleasant and kind and nice, the same is also true. The big difference, as I see it, is in times of stress, the way a person responds is very often the ingrained one.

Sandra Dodd: I've told this to some of you. When I was in France speaking the second time, to the big group, I wanted to make a point about avoiding negativity, so I said there are some people who think it's a mark of intelligence, to be critical and dismissive of things, and in the U.S. that was New Yorkers, but in France I didn't know where that was, and I expected them to say "Paris" or to name some stereotypically negative subgroup or region.

Rippy: I think that is one of the coolest side effects of unschooling in our family. When I'm not being nice, the kids will simply say "you're not being nice mom". They don't let it go on and put up with it. If they don't like how I'm talking to them, they just simply point it out and I readjust.

Misa Knight: So if your base is negative/bitchy/cynical/​depressed/anything like that, how do you change that?

Sandra Dodd: They looked at each other a bit and muttered in French among themselves, and someone turned and said that everyone in France was that way.

Sandra Dodd: So that kind of killed the next point of my talk. 

Robin B.: I don't know if some of it is genetic. Could be.

Robin B.: <Gallic shrug>​

AlexPolikowsky4: I think you can be a bit sarcastic and not be nasty or negative. Or is there another word to playing around and joking in a smart-assy way but not in a mean spirited way.

Sandra Dodd: Misa, like this: http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully

Sandra Dodd: By choosing, before speaking. By choosing, before acting.

Robin B.: Yes, that's true, Alex. But Senna will call me on the nastier comments. Good thing she does.

Robin B.: Jenny, I know what you're saying. It's like a default response, under stress.

JennyC: Yes.

Robin B.: I know when that's happening for me, now that I'm more aware of it. Still happens.

Robin B.: Working on it!

Sandra Dodd: There are people who are less joyful. Or more boring. Staid. Dull. And it's genetic.

Sandra Dodd: But that's different from the people who learn to thrive on the excitement of being actively pissed off.

Robin B.: Right.

JennyC: I have one kid who was naturally happy go lucky, easy going and one who cried all the time and complained about everything. At 20 and 12, respectively, I see them both working towards calm, easy going, happy go lucky.

Robin B.: And I think there is some payoff to being actively pissed off. It's gets you going and in a kind of heightened state.

Sandra Dodd: The quote I brought from the link Rippy (I think) brought, from The Guardian, speaks to that, I think. The biochemical response can become addictive.

Robin B.: Feeling something.

Robin B.: Hmm. Interesting.

Sandra Dodd: For single people, they should knock themselves out, destroying their own biochemistry over the plight of pigs in Wales or something.

Sandra Dodd: But if a parent of children does that, it takes out more then their own joy.

Robin B.: Jenny, you are mirroring one and encouraging the other. 

JennyC: I think so, especially if it's a default response, or a learned response. It makes it harder to see another response.

AlexPolikowsky4: Will try to be back but cows got out and I got to run them in! They already crossed the road (2 of them) and We do not want more the get out.  Brian is busy and called me to help!

Robin B.: Cows!!

JennyC: Bye Alex, have fun wrangling cows!

Sandra Dodd: YES. And if the child has come to believe that it's not cool to be happy, and that it's "stupid" to make light, happy jokes, then their happy behavior will be extinguished.

Robin B.: Why did the cow cross the road?

Sandra Dodd: In conditioning kinds of ways: If someone does something and gets a negative reaction, he will eventually stop doing it.

JennyC: Bu dum cha!

Sandra Dodd: It's training, like dogs are trained to stay off a couch or whatever.

Robin B.: There's a coolness factor to being miserable. I see it on FB every day. I can go there, sometimes.

Sandra Dodd: So some negative parents train their children not to be positive or giddy.

JennyC: YES!

Robin B.: And I have "bitchy resting face" 

JennyC: And then it's so much harder to see happy positive things.

Sandra Dodd: But rather than talking to kids about how to be happier, it's good for the parent to lead the happy way.

Robin B.: When I go there, I message Jenny. 

JennyC: And near impossible to snap out of traumatic, stress induced moments.

Robin B.: She always helps me. Sorry, Jenny, if I do it too often.

Sandra Dodd: Sometimes negativity gathers up all the tools that could undo it.

Misa Knight: How do you know the difference? Between genetic and trained? If your parents and their parents and their parents were not happy people, it could, theoretically, be learned OR genetic, yes? Or does that even matter?

Sandra Dodd: By being extra mean to people who aren't also mean.

Sandra Dodd: You can't always know, Misa.

AlexPolikowsky4: Back!

JennyC: But, Robin, it helps me too because it keeps me heading in the right direction.

Sandra Dodd: But there is a "heritable trait" called "openness to experience."

Robin B.: 

AlexPolikowsky4: Cows out is the only time Brian gets mad 

Sandra Dodd: Curiosity. Willingness to try new things. Interest in what's new.

JennyC: And those things are pretty important to unschooling.

Sandra Dodd: If two people without it have children, the children aren't likely to have it (though they might've had a grandparent… )

AlexPolikowsky4: They crossed the road because the grass is greener in the other side. (hay field)

Robin B.: I think if you believe that it's genetic and can't be overcome, you're stuck. It's always worth trying to be happier, even in the face of a genetic predisposition.

Sandra Dodd: Same, if both are adventurous or curious, their kids might be too.

Robin B.: Of course, they did, Alex!!! 

Sandra Dodd: Either way, though, if the kids are encouraged, it's better than if they're discouraged.

JennyC: And that's exactly where I come to every time Sandra!

AlexPolikowsky4: Robin, I have a bitchy resting face too. I am not smiley. People confuse that. I am super happy and content.

Bernadette: It's better not to try and decide, for yourself and your children, because you might fall into the trap of thinking 'I was born that way' and feeling powerless to change. But if you keep in mind somewhere at the back that it might be genetic, you can use it to forgive yourself and move on when you fall into a negative mood, perhaps.

Lorelei joined the chat

Sandra Dodd: And if my friend honestly, physically and emotionally, cannot come to a place where he can let a happy conversation go by without inserting some reference to death and despair, then I will turn 35 degrees away so I can't see him anymore. I won't seek him out, I will unfriend him on facebook, and remember the happy fun times we had years ago.

Sandra Dodd: But I won't provide an ear or a platform.

Sandra Dodd: it doesn't help him, and it harms me.

Sandra Dodd: What I did was send him some links to things on my site and say that every day people do those things and feel better, and that if he's wiling to try it, and if Every Day for six months he thinks about making more positive, happier choices when he speaks and acts, if he's not better after six months I'll send him $100.

Sandra Dodd: And I'll tell people that my ideas don't always work.

JennyC: My sister is always in grumpy mode, cynical.

Sandra Dodd: But that if he DOES feel better after six months he doesn't have to send me anything.

AlexPolikowsky4: My sister tells me I help her stay positive and see the positive and be grateful She says it has made a huge difference in her life.

Sandra Dodd: Bernadette's point is a good one. You can't be who you aren't, but you don't have to settle for the lost point in who you are.

JennyC: My sister is SURE that it's her personality and there's not a thing she can do to change it and everyone should accept it and move on.

Robin B.: There's a lot of that kind of thing on FB about accepting people with depression and that others "just don't understand."

AlexPolikowsky4: Now if I start complaining she points it out to me ! So she helps me sometimes if I don;t notice it.

Rippy: I linked Shawn Achor's TED Talk on Always Learning and that has ideas on how to be happier: http://youtube.com/watch?v=GXy__kBVq1M

Sandra Dodd: Years ago, I told my sister that everything with her was the last straw, and she removed just one straw from her load, and then the next thing that happened was the last straw ("the straw that broke the camel's back" reference).

Rippy: Alex - your sister is like your happiness buddy!

Sandra Dodd: And unless she unloaded half her straw, she wasn't going to be able to be happy.

Sandra Dodd: She did, and she is.

AlexPolikowsky4: Yes, Robin. Being depressed can be hard. I have never been in deep depression but I don't think embracing Eeyore the answer or good either.

Sandra Dodd: I have been, and it's hard, and it is not something others should just accept or encourage. It's the down dip of a sine wave that also goes up into giddy joy.

Robin B.: It feels like giving up. And I know some people are at that stage.

JennyC: I think depression is different than attitude and gratitude.

AlexPolikowsky4: That is great Sandra!

Sandra Dodd: So people should help them come back up, not "accept" them being in a hole.

Rippy: I've had a really hard time understanding my friends who cling to depressing thoughts and are constantly pissed off. I just wonder how they can carry all that heavy stuff around all the time in their heads and in their hearts. It must be exhausting. And not fun.

Robin B.: That's what I think, too, Sandra. When I'm not depressed. 

Sandra Dodd: Depression as a biochemical state is, but it can be helped by gratitude and attitude, or it can be made worse, reinforced, solidified, by feelings of self-righteous martyrdom.

JennyC: This is why I focus on good and happy.

Robin B.: Yup.

Sandra Dodd: Depression as a biochemical state is (different than attitude and gratitude)...

Sandra Dodd: So what was your statement to mean, Jenny? "I think depression is different than attitude and gratitude"

JennyC: Yes, that's what I was getting at Sandra.

Sandra Dodd: I will be very glad when there is finally backlash against the idea of doctors giving anti-depressants.

Sandra Dodd: Family doctors, just any practitioner, without requiring any therapy to go with it.

JennyC: Attitude and gratitude can help a person out of depression, but depression itself can't always be avoided simply by attitude and gratitude.

Marta Pires: So, choosing happiness and gratitude and joy and other uplifting feelings can help us maintain our mental health. 

AlexPolikowsky4: I think by the time you are in deep depression one definitely needs professional help so hey can get out.

Sandra Dodd: I can't imagine it can EVER help, just taking pills without changing thoughts and belief and behavior.

JennyC: I think so for sure Marta, or I wouldn't be here talking about it.

Bernadette: But your attitude, and the attitude of people around you, can affect your biochemical state, and help with the symptoms of depression.

Sandra Dodd: And so whatever damage might be done by the pills will be done on top of depression, to a person prone to depression.

Sandra Dodd: When the TV commercials and magazine ads say that anti-depressants might lead to suicidal thoughts, I think "WHAT THE HELL!? People don't go to the doctor and say 'I think I'm depressed' if they're not on the verge of suicidal thoughts."

Robin B.: I think there is damage done by pills, evidenced by the shifting dosages, the change to some other pill. Some makes things a whole lot worse.

Misa Knight: I think it's easy to get stuck in that pattern of thinking. It makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint, but it's not so useful when you're beyond a period of legitimate concern (say, abusive childhood and then moving out of it as an adult).

AlexPolikowsky4: But if you know you get the blues, like I get in the Winter. I can choose to do things to help not get worse. Gratitude and being positive helps a ton and add doing things that help promote feel good hormones can go a long way. But if one chooses to hang on to negative things and negative people and gives up "because I always get depressed"...

JennyC: I made my husband a very dark picture with a light at the end of the tunnel because I realized a long time ago that he gets stuck in the tunnel and sometimes can't figure out how to get out. So, it was a visual reminder that there is a light to go towards, happy, things, pleasant things.

Robin B.: Good point, Misa.

Sandra Dodd: It can be like quicksand, though, and it can get to the point that a person can't get out of it just from thoughts. Anti-depressants can help if they're taken for a while and the person is actively somehow getting therapy, coaching, help, self-help group, reading—HONESTLY trying to find another way to see the world.

Sandra Dodd: But the idea that staying on anti-depressants for years is better than learning how to avoid the depths of the depression is horrible.

Robin B.: All those things can help. And sometimes, it's all someone can do to actually get out of bed, at all.

Robin B.: But some people keep trying.

Rippy: My friend who is a psychiatrist says that if a person is depressed and has not taken anti-depressants before, then shock therapy is even more effective than anti-depressants. It sounds scary to me, but he's licensed to do it and says it's much more effective.

Robin B.: And that's good. I like Allie Brosh's comics and writings about depression.

Sandra Dodd: I've been super depressed three or four times. Where death would've been fine with me. It's scary, and not fun for anyone. So I learned now not to get to the debilitating point.

JennyC: Some people really like thinking gloomy thoughts, it feels comfortable.

Misa Knight: It's also very confusing that there's so much conflicting info out of there. >​_< And there's still a lot of stigma surrounding admitting you need help figuring out another way.

Robin B.: She's always looking for a bright side in the midst of some debilitating stuff.

Sandra Dodd: A person who likes thinking gloomy thoughts, who is comfortable there, will not make a good unschooling parent.

Robin B.: Scary is right, Sandra.

JennyC: That's my thinking too, unschooling requires an element of "cool, interesting, shiny thing, look, see, touch"

Sandra Dodd: I disagree with this, Jenny: -=-attitude and gratitude can help a person out of depression, but depression itself can't always be avoided simply by attitude and gratitude.-=-

Sandra Dodd: Being bi-polar or manic-depressive (whether severely or lightly) can be lived with if people find tools and ways to see it as a cycle that will have another upswing.

JennyC: Okay, go on please, because it seems to me that people who get depressed suddenly are surprised they are there in that state.

Sandra Dodd: When their thinking goes dark and sludgy, they can relax into it, pack themselves down with depressing music and sad movies and going through childhood trauma, or they can learn to feel it coming and NOT dive to the darkest depths.

AlexPolikowsky4: They are? I am never surprised when I start going down. I notice it. I feel it.

Sandra Dodd: If they're still cognizant enough to be surprised, they need to turn off the fucking 6:00 news. That is what I think I am saying. 

JennyC: Yes, that's me, I can see it coming, I can touch the edge and feel it's draw, or what I call "the vortex of suckitude", and not get sucked in. Other people get sucked in.

Sandra Dodd: And with that tacky comment… our two hours are over. 

Sandra Dodd: Yes. The vortex of suckitude is a good phrase. 

Robin B.: 

JennyC: I made it up and it fits!

Robin B.: I am coming out of that vortex today. It was only a couple of days and I knew what I needed to do. Come here, for one. Clean up my kitchen, for another. Talk to Jenny, for a third.

Sandra Dodd: What helped me most was reminding myself that I needed to take better care of Keith and the kids, and not expect them to take care of me, once I had figured out ways to bob up and be useful and present.

Sandra Dodd: Even though I could easily have mired myself in it.

Robin B.: I can tell when I'm in bad shape when I start to resent anything asked of me that I would normally do with sweetness.

AlexPolikowsky4: A good audio book and moving can go along way to help me out Robin!

JennyC: When at that edge, either way can feel like hard work! Definitely though, avoiding the vortex of suckitude is harder at first but easier in the long run.

Sandra Dodd: The last two times, I didn't touch the prozac, but the two times before that, I took it for a month or two while I was reminding myself of how to survive the weeks until my adrenaline and zippiness came back.

Robin B.: I associate audiobooks with recovery from surgery. So maybe I need to see them in a different light, Alex!

Sandra Dodd: Some people's baseline is higher than others. The waves might be as high and low, but even their depression has some energy to it.

JennyC: Oh, yes, that adrenaline is a beautiful thing!

AlexPolikowsky4: Get some fun sexy ones nothing too deep or intense.

Sandra Dodd: Others have a VERY low low, and their "high" isn't in anyone's bubbly party range at all. That would be hard, and it would be good not to have children.

JennyC: I stopped taking my heart meds because they block my adrenaline and oh boy do I feel that!

Sandra Dodd: Can you take half doses instead?

AlexPolikowsky4: Are you OK not taking them Jenny?

Robin B.: I've come to see my migraines as not the end of the world. Sometimes they give me a chance to rest. I have noticed I always have tons of energy afterward, so I try not to feel bad about my out-of-commission times.

JennyC: I'm still experimenting!

Robin B.: That's a good idea, Alex!

Sandra Dodd: Looking at depression can be cheery, in a way. 

Robin B.: Maybe I could look at my down/depressed moments in the same way.

JennyC: It's like a science experiment where you are poking at that dark blob to see what it does and how it reacts and works.

Sandra Dodd: Hearing people describe it can be like visiting a family that's kind of mean and snarky to their kids, and then going out, away from them and seeing the sky and breathing the air and thinking "Yes. We won't do THAT."

JennyC: YES!

Sandra Dodd: Yes, Jenny. Like poking a darkness. And being glad you're not inside of it.

AlexPolikowsky4: In the winter I take the time to read and that is great! This winter I found (late in the season) the Korean Dramas and they have been keeping me company and distracting me. The one I am watching now is so funny! I laugh out loud!

Robin B.: Korean comedy!

JennyC: That's been my go to fix for a while now, a happy comedy to watch.

JennyC: Just laughter alone can fix me right up.

Robin B.: I knew a Korean man from one of our racing sponsors. He would laugh so hard, he'd fall down on the ground. It was wild!

AlexPolikowsky4: I find books, audio books and movies, light, fun, cheery, romantic, sexy ones help me be distracted and I have no time to think anything dark.

Sandra Dodd: I was playing a pretty little video game with sweet art, and I finished it. WHAT!? I had friends in there. 

Misa Knight: Kai has been watching Minecraft videos and they make him LAUGH and laugh and laugh. Sometimes, me too. Sometimes, we laugh just because his laughter is so intense.

Robin B.: It's wonderful, that laughter!

Sandra Dodd: Infectious laughter can be awesome.

JennyC: Oh, yes, to video game friends!

Marta Pires: Yes, Sandra. Rippy makes me laugh that way! 

JennyC: Even though, my husband is a moody person, he makes the funniest jokes and that helps keep me happy!

Misa Knight: I think I probably undervalue enjoyment just for enjoyment's sake (working on that). Maybe a lot of people do.

AlexPolikowsky4: Cool Jenny!

Marta Pires: (Rippy and her kids -- they're a ball!)

JennyC: And when I'm happy and helpful, he's much more inclined to stay happy.

Bernadette: It's getting late so I have to go shopping before the shops close. Thank you all for a fun interesting chat.

Sandra Dodd: I think it's because they've been discouraged, by family or school or something, Misa.

Sandra Dodd: (I hope you're not in New York, because that will be hard.) 

AlexPolikowsky4: Bye Bernadette!

Bernadette left the chat 

Sandra Dodd: Some social groups, some locales, value negativity and make it hard for people to even consider or admit to having had fun for the sake of fun.

Sandra Dodd: But it's healthy and it makes you a better person

Sandra Dodd: And being a better person makes you a better mom.

Misa Knight: Ha ha! No. Not New York, but Seattle, which can sometimes be close enough.

Sandra Dodd: And being a better mom makes unschooling work.

JennyC: Lots of clouds and rain, home of grunge, the angstiest music out there.

Sandra Dodd: I think New Mexicans have it easier than many other places.

JennyC: Sunshine helps 

Sandra Dodd: The sun shines, it's easy to get out of town, no matter what town you're in—to your choice of mountains or desert.

Sandra Dodd: The food is good and inexpensive.

Sandra Dodd: And people DO have fun for fun.

Marta Pires: 

AlexPolikowsky4: Well and I live in the tundra! I miss the beach so much. I still don't dwell on what I do not have and I see all the good things here.

Sandra Dodd: It's not discouraged (except among a certain ranching/religious subset mostly in the corner near Texas).

JennyC: There's good things anywhere!

AlexPolikowsky4: Yep Jenny!

Sandra Dodd: Yes, people who need the beach jones for the ocean, in New Mexico.

Misa Knight: I have actually avoided the sun for a good part of my life. I have probably been outside more in the last three years with Kai than I had been during the 30ish years before, combined.

Sandra Dodd: But other than that, it's a nice place and we can get other places easily.

AlexPolikowsky4: But some people are never happy where they are. The grass is greener in the other side  Moo

Sandra Dodd: Pam Sorooshian posted on facebook excitedly that google advises which lane would be best to take. 

Marta Pires: 

Sandra Dodd: She lives near Los Angeles. Few other places need that advice.

JennyC: Oh, that's fun!

Sandra Dodd: I don't go out in summer daytime if I can easily avoid it, but every day has two cool parts with slanty sunshine.

JennyC: I don't like driving in the LA area, but I would find a way to do it pleasantly if that was my life.

Sandra Dodd: We can get all the way across Albuquerque in half an hour.

AlexPolikowsky4: I love Google and I am so grateful for it. I love my smartphone and i am so grateful for it.

Sandra Dodd: And it's quite spread out.

JennyC: I noticed that about ABQ.

AlexPolikowsky4: Some people see it as a waste of time and a barrier to real relationships. That is so negative!

Sandra Dodd: When the light turns green, all the cars get to go. 

Robin B.: 

JennyC: It can take up to 3 hrs to get from one of Portland to the other because of traffic.

Sandra Dodd: The few times that there have been too many cars to get through a light, it must be near the state fair grounds, or a mall two days before Christmas.

Robin B.: I'd like to live in New Mexico.

Sandra Dodd: No other excuse. 

Sandra Dodd: I grew up in a fifteen minute town.

Misa Knight: That would be wonderful.

Sandra Dodd: We could get anywhere in fifteen minutes.

Sandra Dodd: Now, 30 minutes.

JennyC: I live near a mall, and yes xmas traffic is a beast! 

Sandra Dodd: But Los Angeles, more than an hour.

Sandra Dodd: If rush hour, maybe two.

Sandra Dodd: Yikes, and yikes.

AlexPolikowsky4: That is nice. Here is about 20 minutes. 25 to the other side of town . And that is from my house which is in another town!

Sandra Dodd: I can get to Taos in two hours and it's over 100 miles. 

JennyC: John grew up in a small town and when we visit, everyone lives within walking distance and yet, it is soooooo far to drive across town. It's their perspective. I'm like, "really!? It only takes 2 minutes!"

Misa Knight: I live in the Western part of Seattle. Getting across the city is... a challenge. For sure. Seattle doesn't do that weird "spokes" thing a lot of cities do. (Where the city center on a map looks like the center of a wagon wheel.) We'd be in water!

Sandra Dodd: So finding the good parts about where you live is useful. Looking at the bad parts of other places (too much sun, no beach, too much traffic) can make you love where you are!

Sandra Dodd: Are there other spokey cities than Washington?

Sandra Dodd: (Oh, wait…. yes. Dallas, but not on purpose)

JennyC: I look at anywhere and wonder. And usually, when I wonder, I look for all the cool things about what it would be like to live in that place, and then I try to see where I live, in that same light.

Misa Knight: We have a bridge like that, Jenny. Anytime someone has to cross the West Seattle bridge it is "SOOOOOO FARRRR". It's not really, but it feels like it. However, all the bridges do mean a lot of water.

Sandra Dodd: I guess lots of towns were market hubs and so have roads in five or six directions.

AlexPolikowsky4: Do you mean cities that have a beltline?

Sandra Dodd: It developed gradually.

Misa Knight: Well, we're moving to Indianapolis, and that's what the city looks like to me. Spoke-y.

Sandra Dodd: Audiobooks on ipods are wonderful for commuters, aren't they!?

Sandra Dodd: Yeah, I guess you're right.

JennyC: Yes!

AlexPolikowsky4: Raleigh in North Carolina has a Beltline. It does around town. I think they even have or are expanding a second beltline there. (I lived there 18 years ago)

Sandra Dodd: But I don't think they designed it to be that way. Probably they were roads to other towns.

Marta Pires: I love Lisbon! 

Sandra Dodd: Right beltlines are to avoid the towns. Bypasses.

JennyC: Some cities are built around the geography limitations and some are built around a central hub without those limitations.

Misa Knight: We listen to so many books on CD in the car. I love it.

Marta Pires: I know there are a lot of things that could be better, but that doesn't help me love the city I live in. 

JennyC: Probably lots of middle US cities are built like spokes!

AlexPolikowsky4: To get to the other side without going through the center too. Minneapolis and StPaul also have a beltline.

JennyC: I love a well designed city.

Misa Knight: Portland (OR) always throws me because the travel is different. Seattle's a North to South city. Portland is East West. And now, middle cities, with none of that! I've lived lots of places, but never really far from the ocean. So I'm interested to feel how the "spokeiness" will feel.

AlexPolikowsky4: I like that there are tons of parks in my town, miles of bike trails all around and is very family friendly.

Sandra Dodd: (I was off looking at Lisbon)

AlexPolikowsky4: Well this is nice but I am going to make food for my kids  Bye everyone!

Robin B.: I've been to Indianapolis!

Sandra Dodd: I've been to the zoo.

JennyC: I loved chat today! And I need to make food too!

Misa Knight: I've never been. My husband has, though. I hear it's nice. I WILL FIND OUT.

JennyC: adventures!

Robin B.: It is nice! Some really great restaurants downtown, too.

JennyC: bye all

Robin B.: The weather is what you'd expect from the Midwest, though.

JennyC left the chat 

Misa Knight: That's why we'll get AC. 

Sandra Dodd: I hope you like it there. 

Robin B.: 

Sandra Dodd: I'm going to eat. I didn't have lunch before this. Thanks for being here!

Sandra Dodd: We'll save the good parts. 

Robin B.: Misa, there are many people you might not expect in a Midwestern town, due to the racing aspect. I think that's cool.

Misa Knight: I hope you enjoy your lunch, Sandra!

Sandra Dodd: Thanks.

Sandra Dodd left the chat 

Marta Pires: Gotta got too! Bye!

Misa Knight: Bye!

Robin B.: Bye!

Robin B. left the chat 

Misa Knight: Goodbye to you, too, Marta!



Link to an interesting article on How to Build a Happier Brain (added after the chat): http://m.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/10/how-to-build-a-happier-brain/280752/