Chats

UNEDITED as of October, but released to view.  

http://chatnotes-unschooling.blogspot.pt...

From Sandra's notes for today's chat:

"I would like to discuss the value of discussions themselves. There seem to be times and places and conditions that make group discussion work well.

If you have stories of things you have learned from participation in these chats, or Radical Unschooling Info, or Always Learning, or a discussion at a conference (formal or informal), please SHARE.

Unschooling is quite about how learning works and this is about a look at how learning works for unschooling parents."

Marta Pires joined the chat 6 days ago

Debbie joined the chat 6 days ago

Jill Parmer joined the chat 6 days ago

AlexPolikowsky4 joined the chat 6 days ago

Virginia Warren joined the chat 6 days ago

Marta Pires: Hi ladies!

Jill Parmer: Greetings

Virginia Warren: Greetings from Un in the Sun!

Debbie: Hi Marta!

AlexPolikowsky4: Hello!

Debbie: And everyone else!

Marta Pires: I don't know if I'll be able to write much today (and I would love to, because I have some things to say about this topic), but Conchinha will probably want to play in a little bit (she's watching tv right now) and I will only be able to read.

Sandra Dodd joined the chat 6 days ago

Sandra Dodd: Virginia! I didn't realize that was happening. Are you there early, or late? 

Sandra Dodd: Who's speaking? I only found a facebook page, with a quickie search.

Virginia Warren: It's in the middle

AlexPolikowsky4: Pam Laricchia is talking there.

Virginia Warren: Pam Laricchia's!

Sandra Dodd: Good!

Capn Franko joined the chat 6 days ago

Virginia Warren: Merideth is here, but not a speaker

AlexPolikowsky4 joined the chat 6 days ago

Sandra Dodd: Marta, I could share what you sent me, if you can't write today, maybe (if you want)

Marta Pires: Sure, whatever you think can be useful for the chat.

Jaclyn Koehl joined the chat 6 days ago

Sandra Dodd: Frank, that crank indicator was on a steam-powered side-wheel boat in an outdoors museum in Vermont. It used to go around Lake Champlain. Now it's brought to a place where they've brought a light house, a covered bridge and a bunch of buildings that otherwise might've been gone now.

Sandra Dodd: Jill, has Addi departed yet? (I forgot when she was going to leave.)

Capn Franko: Ah! I could simply have one in every room of the house. Maybe next to the sword which is on display in each room! (wink)

Marta Pires: I think Addi's been in Spain since September 25th or 26th.

Jill Parmer: yes. Addi's been in Spain for about 2 weeks now.

Sandra Dodd: I hope she likes her roommates/housemates/cla​ssmates (however it's set up for them )

Jill Parmer: She was really sad and crying for a couple of days, and now she enjoying her classes and people and doing all kinds of things.

Sandra Dodd: So I saw those famous trees in Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine. It really is wonderful. And there really is a lot of still water for them to reflect gloriously into so people can take photos for calendars.

AlexPolikowsky4

I am a little freaked out today. Gigi has always said that one day she wanted to go to school to see how it is. Every year she says that. Well last week while driving by the school she asked to stop and ask if she could come for a day. She was very excited and curious. She is there today.
Don't get me wrong I am in many ways excited for her because she is doing something she has been very curious about. On the other hand I am a ball of nerves . Even Brian is anxious about it.

Jill Parmer: The Spanish seem to have a lot of holidays. So she started classes on Monday and already has a holiday tomorrow and Friday.

Sandra Dodd: I'm glad she is having fun. I bet those first few days were hard for you mom-wise, Jill.

heathermbooth joined the chat 6 days ago

Sandra Dodd: Does Gigi know anyone in the class?

Jill Parmer: She likes her roommates fine, does a little bit with them. But she seems helpful nagivgating the landlord, and she washes dishes even if they are not hers.

AlexPolikowsky4: She says she only wants to go for a day but she may like it/

Sandra Dodd: I put a package in the mail for her this morning. A little gift you will understand when you see it.

AlexPolikowsky4: Probably not

Sandra Dodd: She may like it! That doesn't mean she would like it for a whole year. 

Sandra Dodd: Would there be a problem for you in Minnesota for her to leave during a school year?

AlexPolikowsky4: Knowing her she may ask to go if she likes it but it won't last very long. She will get her fill of it and be done.

AlexPolikowsky4: No problem here if she decides to go and then quit

Jaclyn Koehl: I forget, how old is Gigi?

Jill Parmer: Yeah, the first couple days were tough. I can usually pull her out of it if I go with what she's saying. Like ... Do you want to curl up in a ball in the corner and cry and wait for us to get you a ticket home? Addi would usually say NO, but she said Yes!

AlexPolikowsky4: She is 8

Sandra Dodd: Are there any more opportunities for her to show calves this season, or will it be spring before there are more shows?

AlexPolikowsky4: If she is interested in having classes once a week I can offer her one of the homeschooling co-ops.

Marta Pires: Jill, is there anything I can do for Addi?

Sandra Dodd: So Jill… did you say "Let's see how you feel in a week"?

Sandra Dodd: Or did you start looking at tickets?

AlexPolikowsky4: By having classes I mean doing something with other kids in a setting more like school. There is a local co-op that has Lego, Arts, Chess and some other fun stuff

Marta Pires: I've been inviting her to come to Lisbon whenever she wants. 

AlexPolikowsky4: No shows until Spring

Jill Parmer: Marta, you've already been a big help. She likes chatting with you.

AlexPolikowsky4: SHe is busy with 4-H, Girls Scouts and Horseback riding

AlexPolikowsky4: She also just asked to do piano again

Marta Pires: I'm glad it has helped her. I like chatting with her too.

AlexPolikowsky4: Her awesome piano teacher moved to California in the beginning of the Summer

AlexPolikowsky4: Jill where in Spain is she?

Jill Parmer: Didn't start looking for tickets, I knew Addi just needed a bit more time. She was with a family the first few days, and I think she's so used to warm unschooling moms, that she felt so alone with this family. A day or two afterward, she got to her apartment, and things got so much better. She's met people, and gone out with them, and is really having a great time now.

Jill Parmer: She's NE of Madrid.

Sandra Dodd: We have our quota early! Chatting about chatting seems like art about art, paintings about paintings, movies about movies. And I like that stuff. Songs about songs. http://sandradodd.com/artaboutart

AlexPolikowsky4: I know that for Gigi she is very curious and likes to try things. Daniel has no interest.

Marta Pires: I've felt that she's doing a bit better too, Jill. She's told me about going out with new friends and having a lot of fun!

Jill Parmer: About Gigi. I would guess everything you're saying, Alex. She might try it for a bit, but I'll bet it'll end up being too constricting for her.

AlexPolikowsky4: I believe that too Jill. Lets see what she says after today. Still I am feeling weird and out-of-sorts

Jill Parmer: Oh good to hear, that you noticed that too, Marta. YOu dont' know how GOOD it feels that you are 5 hours away from her. Seriously that is such a comfort.

Jill Parmer: Oh, Alex! Wish I was having a cup of tea with you!

Marta Pires: She has text messaged me less, and I think that's a good sign too. 

AlexPolikowsky4: I remember when I wen to California at 16 to work for a dog handler. I really wanted to go but I cried all the way to the airport! Then I was fine once I got there . I did go with a friend which did help!

AlexPolikowsky4: thanks Jill.

Jill Parmer: Ha! Marta. Having too much fun. I think she has a date for the fiesta tomorrow!

Marta Pires: 5 hours and 30/40 euros away. Seriously, she can just hop on a plane and come stay with us. 

AlexPolikowsky4: And Gigi is so much like Addi liking to be with me and Brian ( Brian said that this morning). She does not like to be away from us a lot.

Jill Parmer: Ok, thanks all. I'm ready for the topic. 

Marta Pires: Really? Go Addi! 

AlexPolikowsky4: Knowing you have someone close by ( like Marta) helps a lot! I had my cousin in California about 5 hours away so that was really reassuring.

Sandra Dodd: Instead of explaining individually to people who have asked me, I made a page to explain it. http://sandradodd.com/oneonone

Capn Franko: Gotta go run an erand. Y'all have fun.

Sandra Dodd: Sorry… my sister was on the phone.

Jill Parmer: Sandra! You are so helpful, and the thought and interesting things you put in your website are so much fun and wonderfully mind boggling. I love the Art about Art page.

Sandra Dodd: Our old house is for sale, and there are photos online. Sotheby's. Seriously!? So we were expressing our dismay at how totally changed it is, and how expensive. Nearly $300,000 and yet it's only on 1/4 of the land we had growing up, and the back porch and back door are gone.

Sandra Dodd: I meant to say this: People who have asked me to help them individually. (I wrote too little… " Instead of explaining individually to people who have asked me"_

Sandra Dodd: Partly, I don't want the responsibility and pressure of keeping someone's secrets who might be making a mess of the advice. 

Sandra Dodd: Mostly, though, I think my time is best spent doing public work, and that they'll get better advice with other voices in on it.

Sandra Dodd: I had hoped to totally re-read Smarter Than You Think before this morning, but I didn't.

Sandra Dodd: It's a book with BIG important ideas, though, plainly put.

Sandra Dodd: http://smarterthanyouthink.net

Sandra Dodd: It starts off about chess played by people against computers. It has the history of that, and the stories are cool, and it ends up with the conclusion that the best chess game comes from a combination of computer and human player (against another computer/human, I guess, but that person+computer can beat another chess player).

Sandra Dodd: There are other chapters about the facts we have at hand with search engines, abut how suspicious people were of wikipedia at first, but it has earned respect, about critical thought, about kids' assumptions about knowledge and the availablilty of information.

Sandra Dodd: But the thing that got me most excited is a chapter called "Public Thinking." He talks about "cognitive diversity," and I like that. 

Sandra Dodd: I'm going to quote something from that chapter.

Sandra Dodd: I'm going to quote something from that chapter.

Marta Pires: Cognitive diversity. I like that too.

Sandra Dodd: "The truth is that old and new modes of thinking aren't mutually exclusive. Knowing when to shift between public and private thinking—when to blast an idea online, when to let it slow bake—is a crucial new skill: cognitive diversity . When I get blocked while typing away at a project on my computer, I grab a pencil and paper so I can use a tactile, swoopy, this-connects-to-that style of writing to unclog my brain. Once an idea is really flowing on paper, I often need to shift to the computer, so my seventy-words-per-minute​ typing and on-tap Google-access can help me move swiftly before I lose my train of thought.

Sandra Dodd: (And the next paragraph…)

Sandra Dodd: Artificial intelligence pioneere Marvin Minsky describes human smarts as stemming from the various ways our brains will tackle a problem; we'll simultaneously throw logic, emotion, metaphor and crazy associative thinking at it. This works with artificial thinking tools, too. Spent too much time babbling online? Go find a quiet corner and read. Spent a lot of time working quietly alone? Go bang your ideas against other people online.

Sandra Dodd: (End of quote)

Sandra Dodd: sorry for a typo or more.

Sandra Dodd: He has an example of an online discussion and says it worked because of close moderation and the willingness to put disruptive people off. I didn't find that passage; sorry.

Sandra Dodd: But it was a male moderator, and their point of disruption was racism.

Sandra Dodd: What we do with unschooling discussions is more female and the disruptions are many!

Sandra Dodd: So there's something I don't think this guy could begin to address, but that we can.

Sandra Dodd: Women share their stories, instinctively.

Sandra Dodd: It's the way women know about sex, birth, nursing, health and safety, death.

Sandra Dodd: Men don't talk as much.

Sandra Dodd: And in the predominate Christian culture, women have been put down for their talking, too.

Sandra Dodd: And in our language, the words for what women do are often negative.

Sandra Dodd: But with the internet, we have an opportunity to honor and relax into what is instinctive anyway while still keeping to a topic.

Sandra Dodd: Men tend to learn by helping other men do things. Fish, hunt, build.

Sandra Dodd: Women learn by telling stories, I think.

Sandra Dodd: Seeing doesn't hurt, but it's not the primary urge, to watch other women cook or sew.

Marta Pires: This is so interesting, Sandra.

Sandra Dodd: (I'm thinking over many centuries, not current people's habits.)

Sandra Dodd: Men watch each other play computer games. 

Sandra Dodd: I think conferences are helpful because families see other families, but it has long been known that the dads are most likely to have the big epiphanies from SEEING other dads with their kids.

Sandra Dodd: The moms had their epiphanies, which is why they went to the conference in the first place.  (Though Heather Booth has a story, and Pam Sorooshian has a story, of a leap in understanding from a conference.)

Sandra Dodd: So that's my intro. 

Sandra Dodd: Do some of you have things to share about the value of discussions?

Sandra Dodd: At HSC lately, I asked Holly to sit where people could see her while I spoke. She sat on the edge of the platform (a low stage). When I needed the bathroom, she sat in for me. 

Sandra Dodd: But what I wanted, and said so, was that if they saw her facial expressions while I spoke, that would be additional information on what I was saying.

Jill Parmer: Maybe my tomboy qualities are helpful with unschooling. I enjoy watching Luke play video games, and the group of boys asked me to join their DnD game. But I do like the role playing aspect more than the combat.

Sandra Dodd: And though I don't love panels as much as I like planned talks by individuals or by two speakers together who know what they plan to do, the advantage of panels is that if someone says something and the other four or five nod and smile, it's strengthened. If one other looks grumpy or surprised or skeptical, that's information too (sometimes about that one panelist). If half or more look grumpy, BIG information. 

Sandra Dodd: And online that can happen when readers are familiar with the writers.

Jaclyn Koehl: I find the discussions very helpful. I love hearing people talk about unschooling using their own words and stories. Sometimes one person's writing or story doesn't click right away, but another will. Then, the other post makes sense too. The more ways an idea are discussed the more full and complete an idea becomes for me.

Sandra Dodd: I like that.

Sandra Dodd: It becomes like a larger sculpture of ideas, sometimes, with passageways in it.  The discussions that go long, and have factions and disagreements are often more valuable than the peaceful focussed simple answers.

Jaclyn Koehl: I also deeply appreciate when people share their stories like Jill and Alex did about what's going on for them right now. It helps to see other people live life!

Sandra Dodd: And having witnesses even to a peaceful exchange can help the exchange. One person might have a piece of information the others hadn't considered (or might google up one).

Virginia Warren: We're finding out that round table discussions go off the rails quickly

AlexPolikowsky4: These online discussions have helped me so much in every aspect of my life. I am learning to be mindful and thoughtful. I thought I was but I was not nearly as much as I wanted to be.

Jill Parmer: What is it that makes? women not speak up when something terrible is said?

Jill Parmer: Like just shush to keep the peace?

Sandra Dodd: Lack of clarity about who is alpha, maybe.

AlexPolikowsky4: Virginia round table discussions need someone to keep it straight who can really take charge. Like they asked me in our local state Conference last month.

Jill Parmer: Sorry, you're finding that out now. I wish conference coordinators would have learned that a long time ago.

Sandra Dodd: In a smaller group, it would be clearer who's likely to be able to have a final word and make it stick.

Sandra Dodd: in an international discussion (or a round table discussion ), it's hard.

Sandra Dodd: I don't like discussions at conferences. One or two clueless people often dominate.

AlexPolikowsky4

So when someone said "Unschooling is great because it can be anything you want." I was said; "NO it is not anything you want or else what is the point of us talking about it here."
B

Virginia Warren: There's a lot of people here who aren't actually unschooling and the speakers have to keep explaining the basics over and over

Jill Parmer: I've seen that happen too many times, Sandra.

Sandra Dodd: It's not worth money to go and hear from other people who aren't great speakers or who don't have a lot of experience and pointed, well-chosen stories to tell.

Sandra Dodd: It's not worth the time to sit in a room to hear questions from people who don't understand it.

Sandra Dodd: Not a good use of human resources or the money it take to put on a conference.

Virginia Warren: Yes

Sandra Dodd: So another great advantage of an online discussion is that you can show up when you want to, middle of the night, anytime, and add your ideas, or read something new.

Jill Parmer: That is one reason I love Sandra's ALL conferences. So much good discussion.

heathermbooth: I don't like roundtables at conferences either. I usually end up frustrated. I will say though, that I went to a round table at Free To Be that Pam hosted and she did a GREAT job at keeping it focused. She wouldn't give the floor is she was talking and she would answer a question then move on and not let one person dominate.

Sandra Dodd: We have people all around the world now, so there won't be too many hours go by without a response.

AlexPolikowsky4: Jill here it seems that it is a Minnesota thing not to "rock the boat" or avoid confrontation. Or so I was told.

Sandra Dodd: That was Pam, though.

Virginia Warren: I want to go to an ALL

Sandra Dodd: She did let the floor go once at a discussion and has regretted it since. So I'm not surprised she was right ON IT.

Sandra Dodd: 

AlexPolikowsky4: 

Sandra Dodd: Jill, thanks. I like the way I run these small events, too.

Sandra Dodd: I'm kind of merciless about letting someone who is clueless or negative have too much to say.

Sandra Dodd: They can reveal their cluelessness, if they insist, but that's all.

Virginia Warren: I really don't know what to think when people have heard of unschooling, but have never heard of Sandra, Pam L., Pam S. Or Joyce

Sandra Dodd: But at HSC recently there was one woman sitting right in front who was irritated and irritable, and I had a hard time shushing her. And some people seemed bothered by the fact that I did, but she wasn't helping one bit, nor was she BEING helped, when she was talking and not listening and thinking.

AlexPolikowsky4: I love your conferences too Sandra! Thank you for having two here in Minnesota! They were pretty wonderful.

Jill Parmer: Same here, Virginia. I wonder what rock they've been under.

Sandra Dodd: I only want to have them in New Mexico. I want people to come to me. I'm tired of going out.

Sandra Dodd: But I'm going to visit Serah in Spring in Ontario. Then… home.

Jill Parmer: I think with so many people writing about unschooling or having closed or secret groups, they get a microphone with no seasoned person questioning or calling bullshit.

Sandra Dodd: And that's going to be her event, not mine.

Virginia Warren: Is there going to be one in 2015?

AlexPolikowsky4: HA!

Sandra Dodd: If I can get the hotel again, yes.

Serah joined the chat 6 days ago

Sandra Dodd: A more expensive hotel without that wonderful little conference center would make it difficult.

Sandra Dodd: This event in Phoenix will probably make it harder for me to get people here.

Sandra Dodd: But still, it's good that there are more opportunities for people, and Pam says it was really good.

Serah: Glad that you are planning to come, Sandra 

Sandra Dodd: We learned in the SCA that at first when there are "too many events," it takes away from smaller ones. But as more people come along, even smaller events are well attended, because there are more people and some get used to going to lots of events.

heathermbooth: Our local group hosted an unschooling basics discussion a couple weeks ago. One woman said she'll tell her son to go research tornadoes or something and he'd go do it and report back. I said she might want to stop doing that. Several of the other people who were asked there to speak said if he wasn't complaining and was happy that that could be unschooling. After a couple of times of speaking up for unschooling only to have my ideas challenged by not unschooling ideas I almost got up and left. Not because people disagreed with me, but because I was there to talk about unschooling for new families and at least three of the five that were invited there to speak were talking about "whatever you want to do can be unschooling." It felt like a huge waste of time. I did not enjoy that discussion and won't go to one again hosted by the same people.

Sandra Dodd: Oh yikes, Heather. That's rough.

Sandra Dodd: "Unschooling basics" is not the same as "radical unschooling."

AlexPolikowsky4: Unfortunately there are more and more relaxed, eclectic , project/unit studies homeschoolers that insist they are unschoolers. I am so glad that I found the good discussions early on.

Robin B. joined the chat 6 days ago

Sandra Dodd: And that's a sad thing, but true.

Sandra Dodd: I want to share what Marta wrote, but I would need to enter each paragraph separately, or put it in with stars to be separated out into paragraphs later.

Sandra Dodd: I'll do the Marta-quote in a while.

heathermbooth: I shook it off and remembered I have my monthly meeting where unschooling ideas are held and people who don't want unschooling to mean "whatever the hell you are doing is unschooling" can come and we can talk and discuss ideas there.

Sandra Dodd: Heather, did you say that there's another level of unschooling that works better than reporting?

Sandra Dodd: I hope your monthly meeting was mentioned or known, by those who liked what you said.

Sandra Dodd: Half-assed unschooling ends up making unschooling look bad

heathermbooth: I did mention it 

Sandra Dodd: A kid who's going to be doing reports and limited in his life might prefer to have school, than a mom telling him what to do without warning or schedule. 

Jaclyn Koehl: Heather, how did you get your monthly group started?

Jill Parmer: It seems plenty of folks are intimidated by the questioning and discussing, and yet they want this thing called "unschooling", but they want to be comfortable or in control or something. And so they take over the word. And I feel all cranky about that, because I feel I've done lots of work to get unschooling, and to not control my kids to be some imaginary kid-model.

Virginia Warren: Why all of the sudden does everyone want to be

Virginia Warren: Call The

Virginia Warren: Blargh

Virginia Warren: Typos ignore me

AlexPolikowsky4: yeah Jill.

heathermbooth: I asked on our local list what day time would work best for people (based of what time I had available), had Jill help me work up a description for the group, then posted it online. I have about five families that come on a regular basis. Mostly radical unschoolers with two new to unschooling familes.

Jaclyn Koehl: Oh, that's really nice! Our local list just isn't active at all so I've been trying to brainstorm ideas on meeting people.

Robin B.: I wonder why people come to conferences or discussions, not to learn, but to challenge. Some people ask questions and you can see that they are challenging themselves to change their minds, but others seem to want to come to argue. This control issue is a big one. Huge.

Jill Parmer: Are discussions sticking to the topic, Heather? Are you enjoying it? I remember when there was one woman with some problems taking over? (that may have been in your Texas group?)

Jill Parmer: Jaclyn where are you?

Jaclyn Koehl: San Diego

Capn Franko joined the chat 6 days ago

heathermbooth: Jill really helped me get clear on what I wanted the group to be for and we worked and reworked the wording to be just right. That was a really good idea to be thorough with the description. I knew I didn't want people who were doubting unschooling. New, OK. Come to argue with me, not an OK use of my time. We used the term "committed unschoolers", which I think has helped immensely. There are new to unschooling families that come, but they are there to learn not argue.

Robin B.: "There to learn, not to argue." What a concept!

heathermbooth: That must have been the Texas group, Jill. These meetings have been pretty mild and I am really enjoying them. I LOVE to discuss unschooling, so having people show up who want to do the same is really nice.

Jill Parmer: Thanks, Heather. I think it's because I bumbled along in things I tried to start here. Now years later, all the folks who got cranky when I stood on unschooling principles are not unschooling anymore.

Jill Parmer: Heather, that sounds so great. Way to stick with it, and keep to your principles.

Sandra Dodd: -=-I wonder why people come to conferences or discussions, not to learn, but to challenge. -=-

Sandra Dodd: I think (that was Robin's note) that they want us to "TAKE IT BACK!"

Sandra Dodd: Jill says she "stood on unschooling principles." she was unwilling to take it back.

Sandra Dodd: People want us to say that it is NOT hard, that there is NOT something they will need to learn or change.

Sandra Dodd: They just want to join our church, and be as much "a member of the church" as anyone else. Because that's the way churches work. And that's the model people have in their heads, I think.

Jill Parmer: Jaclyn, I think there are quite a few people in San Diego, but that is such a big place, and people are spread out. My sister lives there, but with my kids getting older and wanting to do other things, we haven't visited in a while.

Jaclyn Koehl: I like those ideas you incorporated into the description Heather and Jill.

Sandra Dodd: Or that it's like buying an appliance. They have the receipt, it's theirs, if it's not working, it's our fault.

Robin B.: Yes. They don't want to do the work. Both the internal work and the actual, everyday presence with kids that it takes.

Robin B.: They want the unschooling fairy to magically make learning happen.

Jill Parmer: So, seeing what people are saying here today. It's thinking, changing, trying, ...ah, it's Sandra's saying... Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch.

Jaclyn Koehl: Jill, Yes, size and distance between people here is challenging

Robin B.: Yay, Jill, by the way.

Jill Parmer: Emphasis on the TRY.

AlexPolikowsky4

yep Most people that say they are unschooling when their kids are young ( even babies) will not be by the time the kids are 7.
I have seen it. Some people should NOT be uschooling.

Sandra Dodd: Some people think they can read their way to unschooling.

Robin B.: They don't actually *do* it.

Sandra Dodd: Here is (for the record, even if it's too much to read now) something Marta wrote but didn't post, about Always Learning.  *** means paragraph, and when this is edited, they'll be paragraphs again.

Sandra Dodd: Sandra wrote: -=-The benefits of group discussion can be larger than anything else in the world.-=- *** I believe this to be very true. *** And coincidentally just the other day, Karen James and I were chatting about it on facebook. I told her that as I was reading something she had written on another thread here on Always Learning, I had an aha moment. *** Before my 5 year old daughter Conchinha was born, I worked as a therapist. Looking back now, I think therapy drained me a bit, emotionally speaking. It was challenging to make a difference in a client's life and most of the times I never even knew if that happened, if I had indeed made a difference. Sometimes, the encounters were brief and people weren’t the least bit motivated to be in therapy. This emotional drain probably also came from the fact that I was still young and immature and not a very clear thinker, but that's a whole 'nother story... *** As I was reading Karen's writings, it hit me (probably because her writings moved me, as usual -- thank you, Karen!): one of the reasons that I don't feel as drained now as I did in a one-on-one scenario, even if I only imagine writing here, is that although we might be answering one person's particular question(s), the people that can and do benefit from our insights clearly outnumber that single person. Even if they never say so. And that to me, is so uplifting and inspirational! *** It probably helps that an online discussion group isn't as personal, which means that I'm not so involved in the sometimes-very-sad-and-d​ifficult details of a particular life. *** Therapy is important and has its place. It's just not for me anymore, I don't think. Instead, I see myself writing more and more on the unschooling discussion groups (in particular here), if I feel that I have something interesting and helpful to add, and as Conchinha grows and needs me less and less. And like I said, I don't really see myself going back to a therapeutic setting, mainly because at this point it feels more rewarding to be a part of a discussion group like Always Learning, a format that I find to be very effective. I've witnessed first hand its effectiveness and have benefitted from it in ways that are more profound than I could have ever imagined. *** This probably has a lot to do with my own motivations and personality, but nevertheless, I do feel like this group is an extremely rare thing and it is priceless. Besides, the fact that the wise moms and dads contrib

Jaclyn Koehl: That is really nice, Marta.

Sandra Dodd: Besides, the fact that the wise moms and dads contributing here are doing it freely and voluntarily just makes it an even more beautiful, heart-warming gift. *** Another thing that has been on my mind lately, regarding Always Learning and Radical Unschooling Info, is that unschooling well (and dare I say living well) involves a lot of details. Details that no one could put in a book or two or even three. Details that have to do with different types of personalities, different cultures, different so-many-other-things-tha​t-are-life-related. Details that sometimes only come up by chance, because that experienced unschooling mom decided to share a particular episode of her family's life, for instance. I have felt this many times at Sandra's weekly chat. Of course unschooling also involves more general principles that help us decide on a moment-to-moment basis, but it helps immensely to have ideas for specific situations. *** To unschool well also means, from what I've gathered, being aware that it is a daily practice. And in fact, not a day goes by that I don't read something that's unschooling-related, either on the Always Learning list, or the Radical Unschooling Info page on facebook, or on Sandra's site. Not a day goes by that because of that, I think a bit about how I can do better, how I can be better. And because of that, not a day goes by that I haven't done something better than the day before, that there isn't a moment (or two or five or eight) where I have indeed been better -- a better mom, or a better wife, or a better daughter, or a better friend, or even a better pet owner. I can see that gradually, my brain is being rewired and I'm creating new neurological pathways that will help me live a better life, thanks to these precious tools. *** Where else could a person find a more diverse and up-to-date treasure trove of ideas on a daily basis? And if you take into account that the discussions are ongoing and also that Always Learning has archives with its past discussions, the trove just grows bigger and bigger! *** Thanks to everyone that makes it all possible. Many thanks to Sandra for creating this amazing opportunity for personal growth and for keeping this world-changing tool on-topic, clear and to the point. Just what I need in my busy-mom days. 

Sandra Dodd: (Only half posted the first time.)

Sandra Dodd: Virginia, who else spoke? The facebook page says "The Florida Unschooling Conference will feature insightful speakers, "

Sandra Dodd: Pam Laricchia and others?

Jaclyn Koehl: I need to be a little socially awkward for a moment. I don't completly understand what appropriate facebook protocol is. Is it okay for me to "friend" some of you on facebook?

Sandra Dodd: Sure, Jaclyn.

Sandra Dodd: Some people have their own reasons for accepting, or not, facebook friends, so no guarantee everyone will accept.

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Robin B.: ~ Not a day goes by that because of that, I think a bit about how I can do better, how I can be better. ~ I think this is so important. I'm looking at most things I say and do considering what I've learned from these discussions.

Robin B.: Not most things. Everything. 

AlexPolikowsky4

That was pretty great~! What Marta said!
I love this:
"And in fact, not a day goes by that I don't read something that's unschooling-related, either on the Always Learning list, or the Radical Unschooling Info page on facebook, or on Sandra's site. Not a day goes by that because of that, I think a bit about how I can do better, how I can be better. And because of that, not a day goes by that I haven't done something better than the day before, that there isn't a moment (or two or five or eight) where I have indeed been better -- a better mom, or a better wife, or a better daughter, or a better friend, or even a better pet owner."

AlexPolikowsky4: HA Robin!

Robin B.: 

Capn Franko: I've seen several private comments about the non-unschoolers being, ummmm, *obvious* at UitS.

AlexPolikowsky4: Friend away Jaclyn!

Sandra Dodd: I think the richest experience comes from knowing some of the people in person, in a chat or online discussion. I know half the people here, and it helps to have some voices (and faces, when I can remember faces)

Virginia Warren: Signing off for family fun!

Robin B.: You can friend me, as well, Jaclyn.

AlexPolikowsky4: Some people may add you some may not. You can be my friend! 

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Sandra Dodd: What' UitS, frank?

Robin B.: Un in the Sun.

Capn Franko: Thanks, Robin. (grin)

Robin B.: Sorry, I'm not Frank. 

Jaclyn Koehl: Thanks!

AlexPolikowsky4: I like most of the feed I get on Facebook from unschoolers. They are mostly sweet and excited about their kids and families.

Sandra Dodd: They're obvious to see with their kids, or being obviously obstinate in the discussions or what?

AlexPolikowsky4: I have meat 2 people here today. But there are a few more that I love already! Well unless you consider Skype face to Face!

Sandra Dodd: That was a question to Frank, for hinting and not saying something more useful.

Capn Franko: Apparently, in discussions as well as simply in their general behavior. It was just interesting to see those comments after all the positive comments I saw recentl;y about Free to Be.

AlexPolikowsky4: not meat but met!

Jaclyn Koehl: I would like to see that on my feed too Alex!

Robin B.: Sandra, did you see that kind of thing when you spoke at that conference?

Robin B.: I know you found an octopus!

Sandra Dodd: There were problems because it was run by a committee, so no one was proud of it, or fully happy with the plan.

Jaclyn Koehl: I'm still hoping to make it to ALL in Albuquerque to meet some other unschoolers in person...

AlexPolikowsky4: Sometimes other speakers may attract other type of Unschoolers/homeschooler​s?

Sandra Dodd: I hope you will, Jaclyn!

heathermbooth: I hadn't thought of that Frank. I was slightly irritated twice at Free To Be. One because the speaker asked people to write their questions and someone blurted one out. She wasn't following the rules! And the other time a mom said she caught her kid watching Family Guy. The word caught irritated me. Those are pretty mild irritants compared to most conferences I've been to.

Sandra Dodd: A large conference created by one person (as the recent one was) can be strong, but a large conference created by someone who is not brave enough to say no can be a mess.

Sandra Dodd: And committees can't have a good focus (though the board of directors of HSC does).

Jill Parmer: That aspect about being better, thinking about how to be better, noticing to be better, taking action to be better, ends up expanding past unschooling. I feel like I'm a better worker, by thinking in terms of how I can be helpful, and not hindering; and thinking in creative ways.

Sandra Dodd: But I like the intensity (happy intensity, focus) of my little events.

Capn Franko: All very interesting.

Sandra Dodd: There's not much reason to have to shake off irritation.  And we have tables and snacks (which we alway had in Maine, and that was nice).

Jill Parmer: Hope that doesn't come across as bragging. I try to contribute. 

Sandra Dodd: I didn't think it was bragging, Jill.  I thought it was about clarity and the ability to see what might be helpful (principles in practice).

Sandra Dodd: -=- One because the speaker asked people to write their questions and someone blurted one out. -=-

Sandra Dodd: -=- One because the speaker asked people to write their questions and someone blurted one out. -=-

Sandra Dodd: I hope the speaker said "Could you put that in writing please?"

Sandra Dodd: I wonder if it was antagonism, a kind of "You can't MAKE me!"?

Sandra Dodd: I got to meet Karen James and Colleen Prieto, so now I have voices and faces, posture, smiles, when I read their writing (which I already loved even without that).

heathermbooth: She didn't and I think something was said in an answer to a previous question that brought something up for her she wanted to ask about and didn't want to get skipped. That's the impression I got.

Capn Franko: Nice. I do like being able to put a vocal tone and style with a person's writing.

Sandra Dodd: That helps me, even though I'm slow to learn faces and names. It helps that I knew their names because their contributions are so solid in the discussions.

Sandra Dodd: I like to know them well enough to know when they're joking, too, for the joking sort.  I think that helps for people reading me, to know how I am.

Sandra Dodd: And seeing them with their kids helps.

Sandra Dodd: And knowing their spouses can help!

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AlexPolikowsky4: yes Sandra because you are a pretty funny person in person!

AlexPolikowsky4: So that helps!

Capn Franko: Time for me to go practice some martial arts with Chloe before our class tonight. See y'all later.

Sandra Dodd: Holly and I are going to go and buy a tent for a camp-out she's going to. Over the years, all our little nylon tents have died, and what we have are big canvas medieval tents that take two tall strong people to set up and a trailer to carry.

Sandra Dodd: Thanks for being here, everyone, and for thinking about important things with me! 

Sandra Dodd: We're smarter as a group than we are scattered out.

Jill Parmer: Thank you all.

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Jaclyn Koehl: I'm thankiful for this chat being here, and thankful that you all choose to participate and share! It's like getting a present each week  Now I've been challeged to some Mario Kart, so I'll see you al later.

Sandra Dodd: I would hang out late, but Holly is dressed and ready to go. 

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Laurie: Glad I caught the end of the chat....

Sandra Dodd: See you next week!!

AlexPolikowsky4: One thing I have to say about the discussions online is that sometimes when you have someone that is questioning and going on and one and people are answering it can really help others reading. So even when someone is battling the ideas it can help others that are reading tons!

Sandra Dodd: I thought you were here, Laurie—your name was here more than you were, I think. 

Sandra Dodd: Yes, Alex.

Sandra Dodd: People don't need to write, to benefit from group chats.

Debbie: Thank you all 

Sandra Dodd: Bye!!

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Laurie: I was here, but hadn't "joined" - Then "joined" to say that I too was thrilled to meet the Prietos and James families....because I too can now picture them in my mind when I read Colleen's and Karen's writing. It makes reading it that much more special! And when you refer to Keith, I now know him too! Awesome!

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