It has photos, and it's nice. A couple of the stories came from this chat.
Surprise! (October 22 chat)
Think of something that has surprised you in a good way about unschooling, or maybe something your child did or said, asked, drew or built that shocked you in a happy way.
Sometimes we don't need to wait until kids are grown to see big benefits of unschooling.
Sandra Dodd: There have been two stories in public and one I got by e-mail that made me think I should create a new page about surprising moments with younger children.
Sandra Dodd: My unexpected benefits page is mostly about teens.
Robin B. joined the chat 6 days ago
Sandra Dodd: Those clouds, and that mountain…. Most people who see clouds have no frame of reference to guess how big the clouds are.
Sandra Dodd: That mountain is a mile higher than the valley.
AlexPolikowsky4: I have to say my kids are always surprising me! They are always surprising that and that makes dad see unschooling working.
Sandra Dodd: We're a few hundred feet uphill from the river, but if the mountain is a mile high, the clouds are three, four miles high. That's cool.
ColleenP: Puffy clouds like that, especially, are so awesome - though dark clouds can be too - and clouds that look like other things... they inspire the imagination, clouds of all sorts.
AlexPolikowsky4: I love mountains Sandra! I miss them!
AlexPolikowsky4: I miss big tall mountains!
Sandra Dodd: Next year you can come see ours! 
I HOPE!!!!
I HOPE!!!!
AlexPolikowsky4: Yes! I will be there!
Sandra Dodd: Holly's friend Richard lives a few towns south of here and hasn't been up the tram. Yesterday Keith bought us three discounted passes from where he works, and after the chat I think Holly and Richard and I will go up there and I can see the new upper terminal. It was a small forest-service building, cinderblock, the posters and informational displays all faded, bathrooms getting old.
Sandra Dodd: They've redone it, and I want to see it before I take people up there during the symposium.
Capn Franko joined the chat 6 days ago
Andrea: We have not been to New Mexico yet, but I miss the Sierra Nevadas and the Spring Mountains of Nevada...and all the beautiful sandstone in Utah.
Robin B.: Ooh, it will be different from when I went with you, then!
Andrea: It seems like New Mexico has similar features, though I think it is wetter than Nevada?
AlexPolikowsky4: Robin! Come down next year to the Symposium!
Robin B.: I'm working on how to get there next year, as well.
Robin B.: Ha, Alex!
ColleenP: Robert and I went out to Banff and that area, and Yellowstone, etc. before we were married - seeing the mountains there inspired me to refer to the mountains around here as "hills" from then forward. Such serious mountains out west - I love it!
AlexPolikowsky4: Ha!
Sandra Dodd: Some parts as dry as Nevada. Someone asked me what New Mexico looked like one time, and I said the western part looks like Arizona, the northern part looks like southern Colorado and the eastern part looks like Texas.
Robin B.: Yes, serious mountains! Come to Washington and B.C.!
Andrea: Yes, our mountains are hills, Colleen. Even Mt Washington doesn't really compare.
Sandra Dodd: It's not true, though.
Andrea: It looks like itself?
Robin B.: Sandra, that would be hard to imagine if you've never been to those places! 
ColleenP: Robbie would love to see bigger mountains, and deserts, and all the birds that are in both - someday
AlexPolikowsky4: Here they are little his and the bluffs
Sandra Dodd: I just listened to a Steve Martin book called The Pleasure of my Company—a kind of novel, sort of. He describes New Mexico and I was pretty excited by the description, until he mentioned the distant saquaros, in Northern Mew Mexico.
Robin B.: Wouldn't they be in the western part?
Sandra Dodd: There are zero natural saquaros here. Occasionally someone brings one from Arizona or buys one from a fancy plants landscaper, but they die.
Sandra Dodd: They're not even in eastern Arizona, nor northern. They're in a small place, where they are.
Sandra Dodd: I don't have the book on paper. Except for that one phrase, it was beautiful.
Robin B.: Yes, only part of Arizona, not all of it.
Sandra Dodd: About stripes of color on the sandstone.
Sandra Dodd: Utah's beautiful.
Sandra Dodd: We have a bit of that in NW New Mexico.
Sandra Dodd: Ten people! Topic time.
Sandra Dodd: I love stories of a parent being stunned to silence and awe by something cool an unschooled child has done.
AlexPolikowsky4: I have driven past New Mexico several times over 30 years ago. Back and forth from California to Colorado several times and to Texas a couple times from California. One night coming back from Colorado we slept in Albuquerque.
ColleenP: Robbie surprises me almost daily by the connections he makes - the things he realizes (and then shares out loud - I can only imagine how much more he realizes in his head without even mentioning ) - it's amazing to see him take all the experiences, information, etc. that he has and connect it all together when it fits! Like the last few weeks - he's ready the Gregor the Overlander series with his Dad, and many of the characters are named after Greek gods and characters from Greek stories. He keeps stopping to explain who the person was in ancient Greek times, and then tries to figure out how that connects to the character in the Overlander book (their personally, or something they might do in the story, etc.). Awesome!
) - it's amazing to see him take all the experiences, information, etc. that he has and connect it all together when it fits! Like the last few weeks - he's ready the Gregor the Overlander series with his Dad, and many of the characters are named after Greek gods and characters from Greek stories. He keeps stopping to explain who the person was in ancient Greek times, and then tries to figure out how that connects to the character in the Overlander book (their personally, or something they might do in the story, etc.). Awesome!
ColleenP: reading, not ready
JillParmer joined the chat 6 days ago
Andrea: I am surprised by a lot of little things...yesterday my 8yo was pointing out a YouTuber's poor grammar.
Kim joined the chat 6 days ago
Debbie joined the chat 6 days ago
Andrea: We haven't talked about grammar much, so it was interesting to see how much he's picked up from speech and reading.
Sandra Dodd: "Native speaker's intuition," it's called.
Sandra Dodd: Knowing when something is wrong, even if one doesn't know exactly how to explain why.
Sandra Dodd: It's part of language acquisition (the way people naturally learn their own language).
Sandra Dodd: Colleen, when Marty was a young teen, 13 or 14, we were in a bookstore looking at the plastic study guides (cheat sheets for various topics—summaries, laminated) and he picked up the Greek Mythology card, scanned it, and said "This isn't right…" and started talking about who the guy's mom REALLY was.
Sandra Dodd: I think there are conflicting versions of some of those, and I mentioned that lightly, but he could be right. It's happened before.
AlexPolikowsky4: Once would be surprised by my son's knowledge of punctuation! He will correct it while I am typing . Spelling and grammar, yeah that may be Native Speakers Intuition but punctuation? I am not good at it in English ( great in Portuguese - or WAS great in it) but my son knows it!!!!
Sandra Dodd: But we had never read those stories aloud, and he picked up what he knew from video games and videos and casual conversations and looking things up.
Andrea: So true about punctuation, Alex.
Sandra Dodd: Holly's good with punctuation. Marty, not so much.
ColleenP: Yes - things about language, grammar, spelling, etc. have come up here and surprised me too! I was reading an article just yesterday about Ben and Jerry's "Hazed and Confused" ice cream flavor and Robbie was reading over my shoulder. One line said "A company spokesman said this weekend that the flavor does not infer hazing" - he giggled and asked "shouldn't that be IMPLY not INFER there??" He loves finding little errors like that
Sandra Dodd: https://www.facebook.com/groups/30334757... Here's a story I was going to quote but it's to long. It's about
Sandra Dodd: Amber Stippy's daughter suprising her sweetly.
AlexPolikowsky4: Language has always come easy to my son. He started reading and writing things at 3 ( little words ) and then at 6 he was reading everything and had great spelling. It is just easy for him.
ColleenP: Yep we haven't read the Greek or Roman mythology stories either - but he's picked things up from movies, other stories, looking up charts of who's-the-god-of-what online, video games, etc.
Sandra Dodd: I have photos to go with it, on the side, and will put it on a page with another couple of recent stories—one on Always Learning, and one sent to me this morning in response to Just Add Light and Stir.
AlexPolikowsky4: That was such a sweet story!!!!!
Sandra Dodd: Nice, Colleen. Maybe that writer inferred hazing.
Andrea: That is sweet, Sandra!
Sandra Dodd: Sometimes I think we might make too much of these stories of generosity and service, in our children.
Sandra Dodd: Sometimes I wonder if we're just fishing for evidence that unschooling is something special.
AlexPolikowsky4: Same here Colleen. What my son loves is the Middle Ages! He knows so much! I had no idea until we went to the SCA event and he told me all this stuff about it. Now I knew he loved it and knew some but not the depth of what he knows
Sandra Dodd: Maybe school kids are doing just as much really cool stuff, I think.
Sandra Dodd: Then I think…. nah.
AlexPolikowsky4: OH and maps!
Andrea: Cadi is 11 and writes very sweet birthday cards. I will ask her if it is okay to share the message she wrote for her brother. It brought (very happy) tears to my eyes when I read it.
Sandra Dodd: There might be kids who are in school and sweet, and families that keep closeness and wonder, but there are badillions that kill it by harsh rejection of ideas and even of conversation.
Andrea: I know they wouldn't have the type of relationship they have if they were in regular school every day.
ColleenP: I tried watching The Tudors one day last week while Robert and Robbie were out somewhere, and I didn't care much for the show - but when I was telling them about it, Robbie said "oh - the Tudors - that's that guy Henry who liked beheading people - right?" There's *so* much in his head swirling around!
ColleenP: I tried watching The Tudors one day last week while Robert and Robbie were out somewhere, and I didn't care much for the show - but when I was telling them about it, Robbie said "oh - the Tudors - that's that guy Henry who liked beheading people - right?" There's *so* much in his head swirling around!
AlexPolikowsky4: He pointed to a map in eastern Europe and told me what country it was. I LOVE maps and I was in shock he knew! he then pointed to other places. Thing is he know that the maps have changed through the years and centuries. Thank you video games for fostering his love for it!
ColleenP: oops - not sure how that double-posted!!
Sandra Dodd: When I was a kid, I wasn't generously nice to my mom. It was dangerous. The put-downs were so likely to pop out.
Sandra Dodd: So I was cautious and wary, and only nice from a bit of a distance, or in a detached kind of way.
Sandra Dodd: And as I got older, it was rarer. There were times I was nice and then felt like a dope, like a sucker, because she would insult me somehow.
JillParmer: The thing that surprises me in my kids and stories I read about what like you all are saying. Is the amount of information that the kids have and can share in conversation.
Sandra Dodd: And sometimes other kids would make fun of kids who were nice, especially to teachers or to kids who werne't popular.
AlexPolikowsky4: I am a leader for my daughter's Girls Scouts troop with 8 girls her age and no. Gigi surprises me . The girls are great and bright but non of them are doing the stuff Gigi is. Not even our friend's 13 year old who just spent 4 days with us and it is a wonderful smart and loving girl.
Sandra Dodd: There can be so much pressure to close down and be cold hearted, in and around school.
JillParmer: The thing that stands out with school kids that I see, is they like to state facts (that get them praise in school), but it's blurted out and not part of the casual conversation I might be having with them.
JillParmer: Or they can't? don't? want to talk to adults like regular people.
ColleenP: I find with lots of school kids that talking about school-subject/knowledge type stuff outside of that particular building is considered nerdy and uncool - so I think sometimes even if it occurs to them to share something like that, they hold back and don't. Kind of sad.
Sandra Dodd: Good point, Jill. I hadn't thought of it that way, but I've seen it too. They're reciting, not conversing.
Sandra Dodd: Because they don't "have to." You're not their teacher. It's none of your business what they know.
Andrea: "There can be so much pressure to close down and be cold hearted, in and around school."
Andrea: I see that in regular life, too...
Sandra Dodd: It's evidence that they are being separated from figuring out what knowledge is GOOD for. They think it's good for tests, grades, college, job.
Andrea: Perhaps as a result of being raised in the school setting.
Sandra Dodd: True, Andrea. There are people who come to discussions about unschooling who can't be conversant. They ask their question and want their brief answer, and to go away with their "grade." Or their signed form that they did appear and request information. Attendance credit.
Sandra Dodd: Or they will not be open to the array of answers. They want to know which one is the best. They want to refute something so they can reject all of them. So defensive and so far from the peace and learning our kids whow so easily.
Laurie joined the chat 6 days ago
Andrea: Cadi's birthday card to her brother says Thanks on the front...and inside it says "thank you for being my BFF my Best Bro my wing man. And a b.e.a.s.t.!!!! For 8 years now !!!!! Happy 8th Birthday Eben !!!!! i love you. thank you for all you have given me. Acadia"
Andrea: b.e.a.s.t. is an inside joke related to gaming somehow.
Sandra Dodd: Wow. Very nice of her!
AlexPolikowsky4
Brian and I have been surprised by our kids many times. The latest big one happened 2 nights ago. Gigi was sitting next to dad in the floor and looking through a cow magazine. She turns to him and say : "Look dad this bull looks interesting."
dad picks up the magazine and it is a new bull in Australia that not only is the number one type bull in the world but has an awesome pedigree and other great numbers ( for genetics) It was a find!!!!!!
Brian called the semem guy right away and ordered some semen that apparently just arrived in the US. We had not heard of the bull and we are very excited!
Here is he:http://eclipseholsteins.com/
Maybe to really get how big this is one has to know more about all the stuff you have to look and SHE KNOWS! She knows so much it is absolutely.
amazing!
dad picks up the magazine and it is a new bull in Australia that not only is the number one type bull in the world but has an awesome pedigree and other great numbers ( for genetics) It was a find!!!!!!
Brian called the semem guy right away and ordered some semen that apparently just arrived in the US. We had not heard of the bull and we are very excited!
Here is he:http://eclipseholsteins.com/
Maybe to really get how big this is one has to know more about all the stuff you have to look and SHE KNOWS! She knows so much it is absolutely.
amazing!
Sandra Dodd: How old is she?
Robin B.: Sorry. Talking about friendships and what to do about difficult ones with Senna. That surprises me. I never did that with my mum.
Andrea: 11
Andrea: I can scan the card for you if you would like, Sandra.
Sandra Dodd: (I meant how old is Cadi, but telling Gigi's age at this point would be helpful, too. )
)
Robin B.: Handsome bull!
Sandra Dodd: If she's willing, I'd be glad to put it on my new page. (As if I need a new page… but these things are really encouraging and exciting, so yeah… I do.)
Andrea: I can't imagine every writing anything like that for one of my sisters. I would have been laughed at and it would have become a family joke 
AlexPolikowsky4: Gigi is 8 years old.
Sandra Dodd: Very few 8 year olds get to influence their parents to even buy them a book, let alone to influence the future of breeding stock for the family business!
Andrea: This summer a friend's six year old was telling me all about her "broody hen". It was a facinating conversation. She knew more about chickens than I do!
Virginia Warren: I'm surprised by how my girls appreciate each other
AlexPolikowsky4: She discusses sires with her dad and who they are going to breed cows too. We do genetic work and we like type show cows. She can tell if the cow is high pinned if the udder is this or that. Many grown cow people cannot. It is pretty amazing. Heck I was showing dogs professionally at 13 but she is light years ahead of me.!
Andrea: I will double check with her to make sure it is okay, Sandra
Sandra Dodd: Andrea, that was true at our house, too, Humorous insults were acceptable, and very light praise, but nothing mushy, between siblings.
Sandra Dodd: Early on, I was surprised (impressed, relieved) at the range of ages of friends m kids had.
Sandra Dodd: They had friends who were teens, and adults, and also younger kids.
Sandra Dodd: Real friendships, too. Not just casual courtesy of the moment.
AlexPolikowsky4: Sandra it was a great find! We are very excited to get his semen ( $150 a unit!) to start using him on some good cows)
Andrea: Yep, nothing mushy ever. I have a social facebook group for local unschoolers and sometimes I worry that I am being too mushy by thanking them for being (or trying to be) the type of parents that they are...I always worry that I'm being too "touchy feely" as one of my engineering professors loved to call anything that was remotely personal.
Sara Vaz joined the chat 6 days ago
AlexPolikowsky4: I guess it is not surprising the my kids love to learn and don't find it a chore. Sure today my son is getting frustrated upstairs at his new game but if you ask him he is frustrated but happy!
Sandra Dodd: When I was a kid, guitar wasn't considered a proper instrument. Piano was. Even clarinet. But guitar was a waste of time, in a way, even to parents who played guitar.
Sandra Dodd: Maybe because it wasn't
Sandra Dodd: 'academic.'
Sandra Dodd: I would practice piano a lot, but guitar even more.
Sandra Dodd: But if someone had tried to MAKE me practice, I would not have wanted to do it.
Sandra Dodd: So I knew that, to the bone, from my early teens.
Andrea: OH!
Sandra Dodd: I wasn't doing it for anyone but me.
Sandra Dodd: And when I see an unschooler spending hours on something, I know that they're not borrowing time from when they "should be" doing something else. It IS something they're "supposed" to do. It's glorious.
It's glorious.
Sandra Dodd: Holly still mourns the demise of MySpace. She was making pages for other people—their photos and backgrounds and layout—and they were grateful and excited.
Sandra Dodd: She learned a ton.
Sandra Dodd: Facebook has no html, no animated gifs, no significant rearrangement or artistry of pags.
Andrea: One thing that surprised me lately...not directly related to my kids. My oldest is nearly 21 and attended public school for several years before we tried homeschooling. I used to really struggle with her friends...I was stumped by all their little quirks and personality traits. I used to think that I didn't really like other people's children. By now that we are unschooling, I have completely changed the way I see other kids. By building better relationships with my own kids, I am able to interact easily with other people's children.
AlexPolikowsky4
Another thing that surprised me somehow is how my son that used to flip on a 25 -26 hour schedule now wakes up at 8-9 AM EVERYDAY with no struggles ( and sometimes he does go to bed a little later than the night before) because he wants to take care of his kittens! The ones he has saved and were very sick. Twice a day he goes to water them and feed them and check on them and make sure they are good. There is another batch of kittens and he is even more dedicated to them.
He has had crazy sleep schedule for years. But now something is very important FOR HIM and boy is he dedicated to those cats!
He has had crazy sleep schedule for years. But now something is very important FOR HIM and boy is he dedicated to those cats!
Sandra Dodd: Kirby used to wake up at 6:30 a.m. to record Ninja Turtles cartoon re-runs. He would pause to cut out the commercials. He marked the VHS tapes in his scrawly nine-year or ten-year-old writing, and then went back to sleep.
AlexPolikowsky4: That is nice Andrea. I like to think it has helped me too .
AlexPolikowsky4: Sweet Sandra!
Kim: Hello! I can't tell what the topic is, but is it okay if I ask a question? I signed in earlier, then my little ones distracted me. I have been trying to catch up, which is tricky to do via iphone.
Sandra Dodd: Okay, Kim.
AlexPolikowsky4: Yeah I am surprised. It is really cool that it is his own thing and I help him ! But it is his chores he loves just like Gigi loves the cows!
Sandra Dodd: But subscribe to notifications so you'll know the topic and get a reminder each week:
Lisa C joined the chat 6 days ago
Sandra Dodd: Today's topic: Think of something that has surprised you in a good way about unschooling, or maybe something your child did or said, asked, drew or built that shocked you in a happy way. Sometimes we don't need to wait until kids are grown to see big benefits of unschooling.
Lisa C: so glad I just checked Facebook!
Sandra Dodd: We can answer your question, Kim (maybe). We can try.
Andrea: And I am happy to invite/include other kids in our outings, whereas years ago I shied away from having kids join us without their parents.
Sandra Dodd: I always found it easier to include another kid or two than not, when taking my three out.
Kim: My 15 year old son has a long time homeschooling friend who has a surprisingly focussed interest in Mercola-style eating. He has restricted his gluten intake because he thinks it makes him feel bad (I am skeptical since I have known him for 11 years).
Andrea: I usually have my hands (and van) full with my four
Kim: ... The problem is that my son will spend some time with him, and come back and spout a bunch of "healthy information" about things you should not eat.
Sandra Dodd: I had a fifteen passenger van
Andrea: What is bad about sharing information?
Robin B.: My 19 year old wants me to wake her up, no matter what time she went to bed, if we are driving her dad to or from the airport.
Lisa C: Josh was playing lego marvel superheroes and goes, "Mommy, there's an 8 here." I came to see and he pointed to a tiny 8 blinking up in one corner of the screen. He said "See? That 8 means I'm getting lots of coins."
Andrea: Nice, Sandra!
Kim: I need advice on how to help my son not take his friend's "information" at face value, even though he totally trusts his friend.
Sandra Dodd: "Total trust" shouldn't be where scientific information comes from.
Sandra Dodd: And much of the "information" going around about nutrition is fantasy nonsense.
Kim: True.
Lisa C: The "8" was a x8 multiplier, so every 'coin' he picked up was worth 8 instead of 1 (or 80 instead of 10, etc.)
Sandra Dodd: But you don't have to tell your son that.
Sandra Dodd: You could just say he might want to double check things he hears about nutrition because there's an epidemic of fearful dietary advice these days.
Kim: I truky believe that orthorexia is rampant on that family. I just don't want it to rub off on my son.
Sandra Dodd: You could ask him not to bring so much of the fear home.
Lisa C: for those who don't know, Josh is 4.
Kim: I have done that, I try to be careful about how I word it. I don't want to be unkind.
Sandra Dodd: And that when he's grown if he wants to eat that way, he can, but you're not planning to change your family's diet because of fear and fad.
Sandra Dodd: That may be all you can do for now, Kim.
AlexPolikowsky4: Kim it is hard when our kids believe something different than we do. My daughter goes to Sunday school and likes it . I am an Atheist. I try really hard to let her discover and believe without saying things to her. Her dad , my husband is Lutheran and believes in God and I respect that . It is harder to respect because is her but I do it.
Andrea: I would ask him if he has done any research for himself/
Sandra Dodd: Holly's going to a new-age law-of-attraction church and is in the choir.
Andrea: And point out that different people have different ideas about food...in a nice, non-judgmental way.
Sandra Dodd: I've gone to hear her once, then I was in Maine, I'm going this Sunday (they perform once a month) and then she'll be in India for two months.
Sandra Dodd: I can see the benefit to her of being with positve people who love music.
AlexPolikowsky4: Yes Sandra I agree, The same way I tell my kids people think different things and them there are people who do not believe in any supernatural entity because there is no proof anywhere that can be substantiated by science of such things.
Andrea: Or, if your ideas about food have changed over time, you could share stories about that with him.
Sandra Dodd: One problem with "research," about diet, is that there is a jungle of crazy just a click away.
Sandra Dodd: EVERYone's ideas of food have changed, including dieticians, over time. That might be worth showing him.
Kim: My son isn't interested enough to research the topic, he'd rather be playing video games. i have talked casually to my children about there being different ways of eating, that some people think this or that, but I think food is nourishing and why. Same with religion - they know they are free to believe as we do, or differently and change their minds.
i have talked casually to my children about there being different ways of eating, that some people think this or that, but I think food is nourishing and why. Same with religion - they know they are free to believe as we do, or differently and change their minds.
Andrea: Yes, but it's good to know if your kids are taking interest in things outside of what friends tell them...figure out how much they know.
Sandra Dodd: Four food groups turned to food pyramid which quickly turned to panic because the "grains" recommendation was so high, and then the anti-gluten craze started, and people are as panicked about that as I've seen panic about anything in my life.
Sandra Dodd: I think people need an enemy, and a devil.
Kim: And he doesn't ever ask me to change our meals, he loves to eat a wide variety of foods - no problems there. It just freaked me out when he came and said that his friend told him that bread is bad for you. (The boy read Grain Brain recently)
Sandra Dodd: And when a country isn't at war, and when it's not politically correct to loathe and fear people who don't look or sound like you, they look to hate walmart, or sugar, or non-organic celery.
AlexPolikowsky4
This is not Mercola but one of his followers Food Babe. I just read this great article today and I can give you some more later if you want.
here it is:http://kfolta.blogspot.com/2014/10/food-...
here it is:http://kfolta.blogspot.com/2014/10/food-...
Andrea: Does he take information from friends about other subjects at face value? Is your concern about more than food?
Sandra Dodd: Maybe a collection, for fun, of names or pictures of the kinds of bread traditional in different cultures would be interesting. Some don't have so much bread. China? Amazonian jungle tribes?
AlexPolikowsky4
KIM Oh and this one just popped up :http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/9-re...
Sandra Dodd: Some have lots. There are versions of tortilla / chapati / oat cake lots of places.
ColleenP: My son finds the changes over the years in what's good for you vs what's bad for you fun and funny to think and read about - maybe being somewhat light-hearted/humorous about food information would help? Because it is kind of humorous - like when we were little, bread was considered a best food - and now it's an Evil Food unless it's whole-grain or Live or Sprouted or sourdough or whatever the latest-and-greatest is
Sandra Dodd: Then the question should be whether those cultures with an ancient history of bread have failed to produce olympians, or win wars. Are those from non-bready or non-wheat cultures looking like troglodytes?
Sandra Dodd: Cave dwelling squint-eyed Gollums?
Sandra Dodd: People who have lived to be 100...
Sandra Dodd: Did they eat bread?
Robin B.: China has noodles made from wheat.
Kim: Sorry - slow to respond but I am catching up.
heathermbooth joined the chat 6 days ago
ColleenP: He even finds humor in Paleo - he asks (in a joking way) often whether all the people in Paleo times lived on tropical islands, so they could live mostly on all things coconut
Sandra Dodd: The French are pretty healthy and the stereotype of a striped-shirt guy with a bicycle-basket with bread and wine is TRUE! At least in Bretagne, I saw it all the time.
Andrea: LOL, not many coconuts in New England.
AlexPolikowsky4
It is very elitist to think only organic, GMO free, gluten-free food is good and the rest is poison. But that is another topic!
You could talk about how people in different cultures eat diferent things because of availability and traditions. If there was only one type of good food humans would be int he brink of extinction!
You could talk about how people in different cultures eat diferent things because of availability and traditions. If there was only one type of good food humans would be int he brink of extinction!
Virginia Warren: Th he
Andrea: Or you could find out if he's concerned about your family's health or if he's just sharing information without any expectations.
Virginia Warren: The belief that there is one perfect diet for all people is damaging, I think
Sandra Dodd: I didn't make this up. I just found it with google: "The foundational reason I don't follow the paleo diet is because it stems from a belief system based on macroevolution, while I personally am a creationist. "
AlexPolikowsky4: My grandmother lived to a few months before she turned 100 and she ate white bread everyday and she loved SUGAR and lots of sweets. She was pretty healthy until then and mentally sharp until the last minute
Andrea: Yes, Virginia I agree.
AlexPolikowsky4: UGH!!!!!!!!!!!
Andrea: We should eat what fuels us and makes our bodies feel good.
ColleenP: Yes re one-diet-for-all!! We were just talking the other day about lactose-intolerance, and my son asked if it would make sense that if your ancestors lived somewhere where they drank lots of milk that you could probably drink milk - but if your ancestors lived somewhere milk wasn't common, maybe you'd be more likely to have troubles drinking it too. Made perfect sense to him - the idea that your body would be formulated to eat what your ancestors eat. I think there's probably truth to that, I told him
Sandra Dodd: What I was looking for was a shorter funnier version, which I quote in this: Where to start? Where does it end? Politics, religion, dietary scares, fads, logic…. Humor…. This was written in public in a cooking forum. Something to do with muffins. [NOTE! Granola bars, not muffins. This might matter to someone.] It wasn't intended to be funny or ironic. It is candid evidence of a way of thought. "We thought about going on the Paleo diet but my husband and I are both creationists so we decided against it." I shared it once before (maybe here; not sure) but just came across it again and it is a jewel, a crystal, a marvel of snake-eating-tail mixed-philosophical-media unintentional ART. "We thought about going on the Paleo diet but my husband and I are both creationists so we decided against it." God.
AlexPolikowsky4: I agree Andrea that and what makes us happy and we enjoy!
Sandra Dodd: SO, Kim…. maybe gradually, occasionally, introduce your son to one of those questions. Or find calming humor that detracts from the food panic that's all around us.
Or find calming humor that detracts from the food panic that's all around us.
Andrea: Well, I enjoy cookies and cheese, but my body does not :?
Sandra Dodd: And lets go back to the topic when everyone has their closing comments in.
Andrea: :/
Kim: Haha at creationist-paleo quote! That's not my issue, fortunately (atheist here). LOL
Sandra Dodd: Don't separate yourself from your body.
Robin B.: If only we knew what makes us happy! There's a lot of placebo and nocebo effect with eating. Belief is a big thing.
Sandra Dodd: Why don't we know what makes us happy?
Kim: Great, thanks for the advice. I will show him the links and gently talk about the rest. Thanks!
AlexPolikowsky4: Robin that tea you sent makes me happy! and the Ben and Jerry's I had yesterday too
Sandra Dodd: I think my kids do know what makes them happy.
Robin B.: Yes, I think kids do, Sandra.
Debbie: I was thinking that that quote of yours Sandra was a good segue back onto the topic. That kind of muddy thinking doesn't grow out of unschooling.
Laurie: Having the time to be and to experience and figure out what makes a person happy can help a person know themselves better.
Robin B.: I've watched adults not know, though, and struggle.
AlexPolikowsky4: I agree Robin! The placebo and nocebo effect in eating!!! People that ate gluten all their lives and grew strong and healthy now say they are sick if they eat it it ( and I am not talking about someone who indeed has celiac)!!
Andrea: What I meant was, I like to eat cookies and cheese but my digestive system can't handle it. And I love beer, but I'm allergic to hops, so while I would take great joy in drinking it, I could end up dead.
Sandra Dodd: Unschooled adults?
Robin B.: Parents of unschooled kids.
Robin B.: So, no.
Robin B.: Senna knows what makes her happy and she inspires me.
AlexPolikowsky4: Maybe because those adults were told what should make them happy?
Robin B.: Probably, Alex.
Laurie: Choice. Trying things. Those also help a person (unschooled adult or kid) learn from experience...and in turn figure out if those choices made them happy or not.
AlexPolikowsky4: My kids make me happy! My friends make me happy! The little things make me happy. A kitten that was almost dying and is starting to gain weight with our help makes me happy! So much to be happy for. It is about looking around with gratitude and being positive
Andrea: Choice also means having the option of excluding things.
Sandra Dodd: What are you planning to exclude, Andrea (what are you thinking about?)
Sandra Dodd: I exclude very negative people.
Andrea: Choosing not to be around certain people, choosing to see the positive, choosing to do more of what makes you happy and less of what doesn't
Sandra Dodd: Some of my close friends from years back, I don't visit when I'm near them. They piss and moan all the time.
AlexPolikowsky4: Laurie that is a good point! Gigi tried school a couple weeks ago. She always said she wanted to go one day to see how it was. She is happy at home now. She went one day and wished she could go once in a while.
Robin B.: One thing that's surprised me lately is Senna coming to have her hair brushed. She's a person who doesn't like to be touched (or at least not without her consent). I loved having my hair brushed by my mum. I kind of let go of the possibility of me brushing Senna's hair some years ago. It's been very nice.
Sandra Dodd: Very nice!
AlexPolikowsky4: Sweet Robin!
Sandra Dodd: I was surprised at how generous my kids were with money, when they were younger.
Sandra Dodd: And when they had jobs, too.
Sandra Dodd: There was one friend they carried for years because his family was broken and both sides were poor and he lived 50 miles from town, in bad conditions.
Laurie: Alex, I'm glad she had the experience and is even more sure about her choice to not go!
Sandra Dodd: The other kids would buy him a burger, or pay for his movie ticket, or give him Pokemon cards, because they liked his company.
Sandra Dodd: When he was older and had a job, he would take all those guys out for meals, and pay for them to get into movies. He didn't forget. But they weren't waiting for it, or expecting it, either.
Sandra Dodd: (Unschoolers, most of those; Brett Henry, who will be Marty's best man in a month.
Andrea: I was thinking specifically about Kim's son...if he decides to try excluding certain foods from his diet, he should have that choice.
AlexPolikowsky4: Yes!!!! Mine are too Sandra! They are generous with money and very very honest and trustworthy! I told a story about Gigi and the neighbors garden once. And my son is so amazing ! How many kids would not sneak a cheap game if they could on mom's credit card on his computer. IT is a simple click away. But he wont! Even when I say he can get it he wants me to go there and click on it! I love that !
Robin B.: Oh, yes! Senna often spends her money on her friends. Oh, and she always asks me if we have enough money to buy something. She has access to my account for online purchases, but she won't do it without checking with me or asking me to be there when she buys something.
Laurie: That's such a gift ...they gave to him without any expectations....and then karma....he wanted to do kind things for them when he was able to. Sweet!
Lisa C: I went to an unschooling info chat last night where three teens were speaking occasionally on the panel, and it was SO COOL to experience not just what they said, but how they said it, and how they were with each other and the group.
Sandra Dodd: Andrea, he should, and he's old enough to cook for himself if he opts out of the family's diet. I don't think the mom should change for him, though.
JillParmer: I was happily surprised by Addi's fashion sense. I have none, and wasn't sure how to support her in that. I love to sew, and now the two of us make a pretty good team, she'll pick out fabric and tell me what changes to make to a pattern.
Sandra Dodd: Maybe he could go and eat with the other family more.
ColleenP: We have the upcoming Pokemon game on pre-order, and Robbie told me last night that he's going to pay for it "because I have a bunch of money saved up so I might as well" - I told him I'd happily get it for him, as I'd intended to all along, but he insisted again that he buy this time. So sweet.
Robin B.: Jill, me, too! Isn't that cool? I have a kind of fashion sense, but Senna's is very well developed. She has style!
Sandra Dodd: That's great, Jill! If Holly could sew, she could do tons of stuff, but even though I bought her a machine and a book and supplies, she's not into that.
Robin B.: Sweet, Colleen!
Sandra Dodd: But she can recombine thrift-store parts like magic.
Sandra Dodd: Marty saved money to buy a Playstation, used, when he was young. He was very proud of having found a good deal and used his own money.
JillParmer: That is cool. I like what people make recombining thrift store finds.
Lisa C: Those teens had better group skills than most adults. They didn't interrupt each other or others even when they really wanted to say something, they kept to the topics and there was a moment where one of them was responding sort of indirectly to a question asked, and she stopped and says, "wait, am I on topic?" the moderator said, yes, and she continued. And I was thinking, how many adults will just go on and on on a tangent without being considerate about what the topic is and what people are there to learn about and discuss.
JillParmer: I get the Bretts mixed up. Is Brett Henry the fireman?
Sandra Dodd: Yes.
Sandra Dodd: Lisa, I've seen that with most teens on panels, too. I've seen two bad examples and dozens of great ones.
Sandra Dodd: With adult speakers at conferences in the same numbers, a dozen bad examples.
Sandra Dodd: Brett Manifold-Wheeler studies genetics and is Holly's ex-boyfriend and still close with Kirby.
Sandra Dodd: He's a genetics lab tech researcher phd candidate (don't now the title) where his mom is the head of genetics. So it's half cancelled out by that.
Sandra Dodd: I like him tons, though.
JillParmer: Then there's the short Brett, who I really liked.
Sandra Dodd: So!
Sandra Dodd: More surprise stories?
Sandra Dodd: It's okay if there aren't. I'm happy to have some for a new page, so I'll have a place to put some more in the future.
Sandra Dodd: There are the everyday things that kids do to impress their parents that unschooling works, and then sometimes one of those particuarly dazzling things happens.
Sandra Dodd: My kids are hard workers, at hobs.
Sandra Dodd: jobs
Debbie: Not a story, but a thing that surprised me was how big unschooling lives were. A sense of expansiveness, richness, possibilities; which is quite different from school and homeschool.
Sandra Dodd: (Any brits here? A cook-stove is a "hob" in the UK. But it was a typo.)
A cook-stove is a "hob" in the UK. But it was a typo.)
AlexPolikowsky4: Gigi is a very hard worker! and Now that she is driving the gator she is doing so much by herself. It is amazing!
Sandra Dodd: I love the way life can seem to open up, even when a family is in a small house without travelling much. The limits stretch out!!
The limits stretch out!!
Sandra Dodd: I like that, Debbie.
Debbie: That was us; very low income, but big lives.
That was us; very low income, but big lives.
Robin B.: Senna's pretty shy in groups (even though she likes going to cons, she tends to observe more than anything). This past summer at a con, she decided she would enter a Pokemon DS tournament even though she wasn’t completely sure she’d have the skills. She did so well they want her to be a gym leader next year. And she wants to. That’s a big deal for her. And I was surprised she went to the tournament in the first place!
AlexPolikowsky4: Surprised how my kids are responsible while driving the gator around the farm! No running like crazy or being careless. Once I was driving the gator in the pasture and texting and Gigi told me " Don't text and drive" and we laughed tons! But she is careful and puts it on neutral and the breaks on and does not drive too fast or take curves to fast. My son is the same way. Conscientious of it and not just wild !
Laurie: Li likes to make sure we are satisfied with his work of mowing the lawn before we pay him. I wonder if he'd be in school where it is more common to do minimal things to get by if he'd be so conscientious. (He wanted to mow the lawn for money this year...it's not required!)
Kim: I believe we live very big lives , too, only limited by finite amounts of money. My teens think we have a fantastic life. 
Robin B.: She is very sweet to little kids who like to play Pokemon, too.
ColleenP: That's awesome, Robin!
Sandra Dodd: Is there a gaming shop near you where she can go to the casual tournaments between now and then, Robin?
Sandra Dodd: Kirby wore a "gym leader" t-shirt for years, that he had from the shop or a tournament.
Robin B.: There is, but she doesn't really want to go. I've looked them up and let her know.
Kim: My 15 year old recently changed the brake pads on my Ofyssey for me ( with full supervision and guidance of my husband). I was a little surprised that he wanted to learn that!
AlexPolikowsky4: ( I have had kids come to the farm and want to drive around as fast as they could with the gator - Those things can flip!)
Sandra Dodd: Laurie, I bet he would NOT. That's what our kids didn't learn—how to just barely fulfill minimal requirements.
Robin B.: She likes casual stuff at conferences, though.
AlexPolikowsky4: Awesome Robin!!!!
Andrea: He can come to my house anytime, Kim!
Andrea: My Odyssey needs work
Kim: I will tell him!
Robin B.: That's cool, Kim!
AlexPolikowsky4: Awesome Kim!
AlexPolikowsky4: This year my son has not gone biking any day. A week or so ago he pulled his bike from the garage and cleaned it and oiled it. Just because!
Robin B.: Right now, I'm impressed with her thoughtfulness about her friends. She's mad at one of them for the nasty things she says to Senna (partly because her friend's parents are divorcing and she's very stressed and unhappy), but she talks to me about it. She doesn't want to lose the friendship, but wants to find ways to make it better for the both of them.
Robin B.: Sorry, that came out weird. Senna is mad at the things her friends says to her.
Kim: It's a great way to live - having time to follow your interests and not be rushed. To go from whim to whim, interest to random activity and back again.
Sandra Dodd: That's the way I want to live the rest of my life, Kim.
Robin B.: Yes, it's a good model!
Sandra Dodd: My husband is talking about retiring, but doesn't know what he wants to do, how he will be.
AlexPolikowsky4: I want to live like that too
Sandra Dodd: I know what I want to do!
Kim: My husband stayed home with our kids for six months once and I worked ft out of the home. When I quit and stayed home again, I didn't know what to do with myself and it was difficult to get back into the frame of mind of organizing my days for myself. I am sure my husband will
Kim: ed a bunch of time to transition when he does it.
Kim: What do you want to do, Sandra? Something different?
Sandra Dodd: I want to do just what I'm doing—putz around and work on my website.
Kim: Sounds good!
Sandra Dodd: I want to get up and be home and see what needs to be done and do a bit and then take a nap.
Sandra Dodd: Starting this year.
Sandra Dodd: And I don't want to travel for a while.
JillParmer: That sounds so lovely, Sandra.
Sandra Dodd: September 2016 I'm going to England.
Kim: I crave more frequent travel, less time home.
Sandra Dodd: I did when I was younger, but now I want to be home with Keith. That's a good feeling.
AlexPolikowsky4: IT is I can see my self wanting to be home with Brian!
I can see my self wanting to be home with Brian!
Robin B.: That's lovely, Sandra.
Kim: I do look forward to having the leisure to watch marathons of great shows, and read series of books, nonstop, with little to no distractions... One day.
Sandra Dodd: The time will come.
Sandra Dodd: There is the big surprise, too, which already has a page—that unschooling can make marriages so much better.
Robin B.: Yes!
Sandra Dodd: What a bonus.
Kim: My husband envisions us living in a RV and traveling from one child's home to another, etc. (we have 4). But the youngest is 1, so it will take a while.
Sandra Dodd: Keith is talking about getting an RV. I'm somewhat opposed, but he's let me have my way so much, I'll go along with it if he decides to do it.
Sandra Dodd: But our only child who lived far away is moving back in March. He wants to go to national parks.
Sandra Dodd: His parents used to take their kids to national parks.
Sandra Dodd: He wants that, for himself. I'll go with him.
Sandra Dodd: Our kids' camping was usually medieval tournaments.
Kim: You will hopefully find that the RV becomes your home and you will be able to make your nest within it.
Sandra Dodd: Eating medieval from pewter and wood.
Kim: Fun!
Sandra Dodd: Oh, hell no, Kim. Not home. yikes.
Sandra Dodd: I would rather stay in motels than an RV.
Kim: Home away from home?!? Lol
Sandra Dodd: I think for the price of an RV we could stay in motels for a couple of years.
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Kim: There are some nice RVs out there.
AlexPolikowsky4: i cannot sleep in a sleeping bag or those inflatables but I was at and SCA event and went in a tent. HIGH tent and a real bed! I want that!!!
Sandra Dodd: Then you need a trailer or a big truck to carry your SCA tent and bed in.
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Sandra Dodd: And stand-up camp stove and tables and chairs and banners and hangings and…. It's not like camping.
AlexPolikowsky4: I can manage that Sandra! Do you think that big red dump truck we have is big enough
Sandra Dodd: That would do it, Alex.
Andrea: I would like to travel like that, Kim when my kids are grown.
Kim: We tent camp, but we bring tons of stuff - electric oscillating fan, campstove, bbq, foam mattresses, tablets...
AlexPolikowsky4: Yeah I like the idea of camping but I cannot sleep at all.
Sandra Dodd: I'm hungry so I think I will bail four minutes early. I hope you don't mind.
Sandra Dodd: Thanks for being here, and I will see some of you (maybe all of you!) next week!
Robin B.: Go eat!
Kim: Enjoy! I am off, too.
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AlexPolikowsky4: Foam matress and lots of things would help Kim!
Robin B.: Bye!
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ColleenP: Bye!/bye
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Kim: y
y
AlexPolikowsky4: Me hungry too!!!! Going to eat but need to feed kitties first! bye
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