Sandra Dodd left this message 6 hours ago:
Today's chat, without advance notice to most people, will be on the topic of gradual change.
http://sandradodd.com/gradualchange
http://sandradodd.com/gradualchange
Amber joined the chat 5 hours ago
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Virginia W joined the chat 5 hours ago
MomInME joined the chat 5 hours ago
AlexP joined the chat 5 hours ago
Sandra Dodd: If there are people here who have never looked at the gradual change page, you might want to. If you're way familiar with that one, here's another one:
Katja joined the chat 5 hours ago
Sandra Dodd: http://sandradodd.com/problems/toofar
Sylvia Woodman joined the chat 5 hours ago
Sylvia Woodman: Hello!
Serah joined the chat 5 hours ago
Amber: :) Hi Sylvia
Sylvia Woodman: Hi Amber!
Amber: So I almost bought the Animaniacs on DVD after reading about them on Sandra's site - but I didn't ... and now they're available on Netflix@
Amber: !
Sylvia Woodman: Nice!
DonnaT left the chat 5 hours ago
Katja: The first two paragraphs of 'toofar' currently apply to is: up until midnight and ice cream for breakfast.
Sandra Dodd: I have season one on DVD, but it's great that they're on Netflix!
Sandra Dodd: Did you do it all of a sudden, Katja?
Sandra Dodd: We have over ten people, so let's do it!
Amber: I am not familiar with them at all so I'm looking forward to checking them out - right now, though, the newest focus is Frozen, so I might wait and just see where Frozen takes us for a while
Sandra Dodd: Because in the announcement I didn't have a topic yet, does anyone here have a question or problem you wanted to discuss before we go to "Gradual Change"?
Sylvia Woodman: Oh Frozen is great! We loved it. It was the first movie all four of us saw in a movie theater together!
Sandra Dodd: Amber (and others) here is a riddle you can use with your kids. Keep a straight face like it's a real question, first. I learned this from Devyn (7):
Sandra Dodd: Why can't you give Elsa a balloon?
Sandra Dodd: Let the other person think. (I saw my daughter-in-law, Ashlee get it before Devyn gave the punchline, but she let Devyn tell her anyway.
Amber: ?
AlexP: Madagascar was a family favorite
Sandra Dodd: Sing the response if you can. :-) "She'll let it go, let it go..."
Amber: haha
Amber: helium balloon!
Katja: Yes, too quickly. Tried to say 'yes' whenever something wasn't dangerous, like toddler running into the road. Now I am feeling lost figuring out when to say no or something like no.
Amber: I was thinking more scientifically like trying to think about freezing the air inside or something
Sylvia Woodman: Gabriella would point out that Elsa is probably smart enough to tie the string around her wrist.
Sandra Dodd: Elsa's not seven.
Sandra Dodd: But it's funnier Devyn's way. :-)
AlexP: say no when no is the best choice Katja
Sandra Dodd: Are there people here who went too far too fast and have stories of ways to gently calm things back down?
Amber: Based on my own experiences, I think I could have benefited from seeing that "gradual change" page and maybe the "read a little" linked at the top of every page on Sandra's site
JennyC joined the chat 5 hours ago
Sandra Dodd: Read a little isn't on every page. :-) Maybe it SHOULD be, but there are thousands of pages. Way, lots, many.
Amber: and I also think that more examples of gradual change would maybe have helped - I like one recent post in Always Learning that talks about ways to have fun with sugar
Katja: Best choice for whom? Toddler wanting to play outside during a playgroup. So I ended up the only mom outside, running after my 2 year old because I love that he wants to be outside but also wanted my once a week chance to speak to other adults/women
Amber: this one: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Alwa...
Sylvia Woodman: There is a "holiday" in February called Ice Cream For Breakfast Day and every year I mark it on the calendar and we talk about it for a while and we make plans, and then when the day comes and I say let's eat ice cream for breakfast today the kids say, I'd rather have pancakes and bacon, Mom! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_Cream_...
MomInME: How does Elsa pop a balloon? w/ a freezy pop.
AlexP: it is because people come looking for how to unschool, rules to follow. So say yes some people run wth it. They are notthinking . It needs to be about making better choices and why you are saying, yes, no, maybe, later, this instead.
Sandra Dodd: Get a babysitter, if you want to visit with other adults, maybe.
Sylvia Woodman: Evidently I'm the only one who wants to eat ice cream for breakfast in this house. :)
Celeste Burke joined the chat 5 hours ago
Sandra Dodd: I was frustrated when my kids were young and we would have park days and some moms were so desperate for adult conversation that they totally neglected their children's needs and safety during that time.
Sandra Dodd: It seems to me that facebook should be a HUGE help in that way—it's possible to have adult interaction by computer at home while kids are safe.
AlexP: Other people dont have tools yetto replace out tools and patterns, again ti goes back to why. Why you are making the choices you are making, What are the princioles the guide those choices. What are the priorities?
Sandra Dodd: -=-I like one recent post in Always Learning that talks about ways to have fun with sugar-=-
Sandra Dodd: -=-I like one recent post in Always Learning that talks about ways to have fun with sugar-=-
Amber: I'm often the one shadowing the group of kids at the park, or the one pushing kids on the swings, while the other moms interact. I've had lots of feelings over all that, but I've started to ... Let it go!
Sandra Dodd: Who wrote I? I don't remember it.
JennyC: I was very often the only mom playing with all the kids because I was playing with my own
Amber: Marina deLuca Howard?
Serah: it's funny watching my toddler eat ice cream first then broccoli or chicken. It's just food for her.
Sandra Dodd: I like that, too. The first time we did that with other adults around, of course one of them said something tacky. But they were all impressed.
AlexP: social media helps a ton.
Sylvia Woodman: Somewhere out in the wilds of FB some mom asked what do the parents do all day while the kids are unschooling. Totally didn't understand what HER role was supposed to be.
Sylvia Woodman: She was looking for a how to guide.
Sandra Dodd: We were in California, about to have dinner with adult friends we hadn't seen for a while. So there were seven adults and Kirby and Marty were 5 and 3.
AlexP: I get my girl time online. But now that my kids are older I get a vouple hours a day I go for a walk with friends.
Suziep joined the chat 5 hours ago
Sandra Dodd: As soon as we sat down, I ordered a piece of apple pie to come right away. Like with the drinks, for the adults.
Katja: Being a facilitator for my children is the priority. But quite frankly, I felt stupid. Like I should take control and force him to stay inside. All the previous attempts on getting him interested in toys were made and he was ready to move on. I often get frustrated by situations like that.
Sandra Dodd: So one of the childless adults said then my kids wouldn't eat anything else. I said I thought they would. (I KNEW they would).
Sylvia Woodman: So I told her the kinds of things I do with and for my kids and then she implied that I was lying.
Amber: I think it's helpful to know that there are examples of kids turning down sweets, but there's also times when they are eating sweets, and I don't feel like I see lots of those kinds of examples, and how the parents have gotten to the point of kids turning down sweets... maybe I just haven't found the right page
Celeste Burke: Even if they didn't eat anything else, so?
Sandra Dodd: So it seemed surprising to all of them when those two were happy and occupied while we all chatted, and then they ate chicken strips and vegetables and bread, also happily.
Sandra Dodd: Of course they were done before we were, and got down and were walking around a bit, but they weren't hungry, so they weren't whiney or impatient.
JennyC: My youngest likes candy and sweet things a LOT!
Sylvia Woodman: Amber, my son Harry has a big appetite for sweets.
Sandra Dodd: Amber, how long as it been that you didn't sort sweets out from other foods at your house?
Sandra Dodd: Or do you "do dessert"? We never "had dessert" here as part of a meal.
Sylvia Woodman: When he was little and still nursing sometimes it seemed like the only thing he ate were hershey bars.
AlexP: Katja that goes back to priorities, If you priority is your child than being outside with your child is more importtant. Now if going to playgroups like thhat do notwork for you or him find other ways for him to play outside and other ways for you to get some adult chat in. Online while he sleeps is a good way. Or get a sitter like someone posted
Virginia W: My daughter likes sour patch kids. Everything she gets some, I eventually find a bowl with all the greens and yellows
Virginia W: That would have been unthinkable for me as a kid
Sandra Dodd: Cake was cake. More a snack than a reward or a final course.
Sandra Dodd: -=-...how the parents have gotten to the point of kids turning down sweets... maybe I just haven't found the right page-=-
Sandra Dodd: It's ALL the pages.
JennyC: Always has. The last time we went to the dentist was because my kid has a bunch of baby teeth that won't go. The dentist suggested we get lots of starbusrt.
Katja: One of the big unschooling moments was when my 5 year old declared that she doesn't like chocolate. When sugar was 'bad' , she ate whatever she could get her hands on including chocolate. Now she only likes lollipops ;-)
Amber: From when she was little, my daughter still refers to things as sweet treats ... I'm not sure how to help her transition out of that
Sylvia Woodman: Dessert isn't connected with any meal at our house unless it's a holiday meal where there are "courses" and Jim grew up with dessert as a thing so when we eat with his mother there is usually dessert served.
Celeste Burke: My middle kid, Desmond, had a year or so of donuts. He really loves sweet things. Now its chocolate ice cream, eggs, or rice with avocados.
Serah: yeah, that is how food should be. uncategorized or labelled. food is food.
Sylvia Woodman: Sometimes, that's the only part of the meal that Harry eats.
Sandra Dodd: The whole unschooling reality of being with children and giving them choices and options.
AlexP: just now I got home from Cotsco with 3 loafs of cinnamon butter and offered to my daughterl She took the raspberries to eat and the fruit smoothie to drink. What child does that?
JennyC: Sorry, my whole thing got cut off. I was saying that my kid likes candy and sweet things a lot
Sandra Dodd: How old is she?
Celeste Burke: I was surprised because my oldest didn't like sweet at all. He was all about bread. Now though, he's getting into candy and cookies. He's 6.
Sandra Dodd: What is cinnamon butter, Alex
Sandra Dodd: Cinnamon bread?
Amber: but we don't do dessert, I don't think - I mean it's never been a thing that she has to eat something first, to earn dessert
Sandra Dodd: How old is she, Amber? How many years of "sweet treats" and how many since then?
Sylvia Woodman: But he is trying more and different kinds of foods lately so I'm hopeful that eventually he will want to eat more of the meal. For now he is content to sit with us, listen to the family stories and news. I usually make sure he has a snack before if I know it's something he's not likely to eat.
AlexP: cinnamon butter loafs Sandra.
Serah: i like to have dessert type food around, for me mostly. Sometimes it gets eaten, sometimes it sits around so long it goes off and gets thrown out.
Amber: she's 4.5 ... I haven't been referring to sweet treats for at least 1.5 years
Sylvia Woodman: I think kids need sugar.
Sandra Dodd: If she asks for a sweet treat, could you say "Do you know what you want?
AlexP: like cake , sweeet bread
Sandra Dodd: Instead of listing sweet treats for her (buying into and cooperating with her terminology) could you ask her to ask differently?
Amber: Yes, I've tried that I think ... she also asks for something "cold and sweet" and I say that it sounds like she has something in particular that she wants and ask if she can be more specific
Sandra Dodd: I'm hoping some people here know ways to roll back away from a frenzy, but I'm not sure there is a good one.
AlexP: offer her some sweet fruits too! dont assume sweet treats dont include fruit!
Sylvia Woodman: I remember we were at a play date with one of my LLL co-leaders and her daughter was going on and on about the "treat of the day" and Gabriella had no idea what she was talking about.
Amber: (usually a popsicle)
Celeste Burke: cold and sweet could be juice
Celeste Burke: or ice cream
Sandra Dodd: It's sad to know that the frenzy is built up from the limitations before it, but it's true.
Sandra Dodd: At least cold and sweet is not "sweet treats"—not a stock phrase repeated from years before.
AlexP: the other day Gigi ate like 10 oranges because they tasted so good and were so sweet! They weere really amazing! I just got more of those!
Celeste Burke: roll back away from a frenzy? like going gluten free?
Sylvia Woodman: Were they the Clementies or the Halo oranges? My kids love those too!
Celeste Burke: and dairy free
Celeste Burke: I did
JennyC: When someone doesn't know what they want to eat and say they are hungry, I start asking, "do you want sweet or savory? Warm or cold? Bready, meaty, vegetable, or fruit?" And depending on those answers, I'll ask other ones.
Sandra Dodd: "He would eat 6+ apples a day if let to his own devices." (I thought there was one about oranges, but I guess not. :-))
AlexP: Sylvia they were Cara cara oranges. Get them at Cotsco. AMAZING!
Sandra Dodd: That's from http://sandradodd.com/ifilet which also has "If I let her eat whatever she wanted she'd eat nothing but oatmeal."
Sylvia Woodman: I'm very excited a new costco is going to open up in my town. I'm excited to try it out!
Sandra Dodd: But that's a parental frenzy, Celeste. :-)
Sandra Dodd: Still, what did you do?
Sandra Dodd: Did you tell the kids "Maybe I was wrong, let's try this"?
Sandra Dodd: Or just gradually bring more things in?
Katja joined the chat 5 hours ago
Sandra Dodd: With kids having been told "Now you can have all the candy you want," after it being measured or forbidden, I don't know how to avoid the months or years of bingeing.
Celeste Burke: I made everybody go gluten and dairy free for two years (or so). I only had two kids, and only one of them was old enough to eat solid foods. At some point Chase pointed to a piece of bread and said "I don't like that." Which was completely not true, but his way of saying "I can't eat that." That moment I decided to stop with the control. I started saying yes more. Occasionally I would offer new things that would have been restricted. It was slow, but eventually he knew he can eat and try anything he wanted.
Sylvia Woodman: I went with the LLL adage: Eat to hunger, drink to thirst.
Sandra Dodd: There was advice offered by Kelly Lovejoy pretty often, years back. that if a parent said she (usually "he," honestly) needed not to have sweets in the house because he/she/the parent would eat them all without self control,
Katja: I'd like to tag onto that: Can you give me ideas on how to gradually take away limits without children getting confused? My 5 year old will tell me, but xyz is bad for you? Why can we have it/do it today?
Sandra Dodd: then Kelly would say to put out a bowl of M&Ms and keep it full, until that adult was able to see the M&Ms and not want them.
Sylvia Woodman: If you are hungry have some. Didn't matter to me if it was chocolate, meat, orange juice, ice cream.
Sandra Dodd: For an adult, it usually only takes a couple of refills.
Sandra Dodd: Someone's recent question about kids (how many kids? 3 or 4? I honestly don't know) involved the kids eating fast so the other kids wouldn't get more than they did, right?
Sandra Dodd: That added a whole 'nother aspect.
Sylvia Woodman: Katja - where did your child get the message that something is bad for her?
AlexP: Katja say you were wrong.
MomInME: We have always talked about balance in everything we choose. So, when I let the children know we would let them choose what they want to eat, we looked at each food choice trying to find balance.
AlexP: Say you were mistaken.
Sandra Dodd: -=-Can you give me ideas on how to gradually take away limits without children getting confused? -=-
Sandra Dodd: -=-Can you give me ideas on how to gradually take away limits without children getting confused? -=-
Sylvia Woodman: And maybe read this book! http://www.amazon.com/Bad-You-Exposing-W...
Robin B. joined the chat 5 hours ago
Sandra Dodd: I think you could say "I used to be afraid of that, but I think I was wrong. Let's try it. I don't think it will hurt you."
JennyC: I probably would have been uptight about food, as a young mom, but as it turns out, my husband would have contested it at every step. So because I love him, I listened to him when he said we should get little Debbie snack cakes and instant mashed potatoes and things like that, that I never would have bought otherwise.
Sandra Dodd: MominME, what do you ean "trying to find balance"?
AlexPolikowsky7 joined the chat 5 hours ago
Katja: she had a tummy ache every day and we tried to limit dairy to see if she felt better. She seemed better for a while. but then the ache came back and we let he have milk again. now - I can not get it out of her that 'milk is bad' and when I give her some, she gives me a quizzical look. even though I explain things. So, my feeling is, she likes rules and hold on to them tightly
Sandra Dodd: ALSO: Don't anyone write here if you don't want to be quoted. It's not a private conversation, it's a discussion I keep on record for a long time, so you're writing in publi.
Amber: unfortunately, we often talk (too much) about "eating a variety" - I have a feeling it's impeding my daughter's learning
Sandra Dodd: "Balance" can't be imposed from the outside. Then it's just control.
AlexPolikowsky7: MominMe- everything in moderation? Should we love in moderation,care in moderation?
JennyC: Sometimes, even now, I will eat a bag of potato chips for dinner. My kids are free to do the same, but they usually like other things.
MomInME: With all of my own knowledge about nutrition, we've always discussed how foods help us. Focus, grow muscles, heal, etc. Eating the foods that help us do things we want helps us find balance.
Sylvia Woodman: Katja explain that you were experimenting to see what might help her feel better. It seems like milk wasn't the cause so now you are looking into other possible causes.
Sandra Dodd: Right, about talking too much. :-) Don't talk. OFFER a variety, but don't pressure or shame. Accept that there might be a day of all fruit, or a day of all potatoes, and that the balance will be over weeks or months, not over hours or meals.
MomInME: So, we tested out different foods and how we felt after them.
AlexPolikowsky7: Katja does she want milk? Is that why you are giving it to her?
Katja: yes, she loves milk
Sylvia Woodman: Foods make us focus?
Sandra Dodd: -=-MomInME: So, we tested out different foods and how we felt after them.-=- How old are the children?
AlexPolikowsky7: Sandra's idea was great!
Amber: "weeks or months" ... this is so important!!! that feels more like snail-pace change rather than gradual change
MomInME: My 8 year old discovered he doesn't like milk because it slows down his ability to focus and be quick in his responses to playing.
Sandra Dodd: He "discovered" that on his own without any suggestions from outside?
Sandra Dodd: -=- With all of my own knowledge about nutrition, we've always discussed how foods help us.-=-
Sandra Dodd: -=- With all of my own knowledge about nutrition, we've always discussed how foods help us.-=-
MomInME: My 6 year old daughter found out, she had a lot of energy after eating a banana. Now, she loves eating them.
Sandra Dodd: (I'm sorry my keyboard doubles things. I don't know how to avoid that.)
JennyC: All that's true MomInMe, but there's no way that you can feel and know what another's body is doing and reacting to the foods it has. So, for example, lentils make me feel great. Physically, every time I eat them, my body feels better. Two of my family members won't eat lentils, one because they hate the texture so much that no benefit would be big enough to counter that experience, and the other would be sitting on the toilet the whole next day.
Sandra Dodd: Milk or bananas are unlikely to have the very same effect every time, as there are other factors. It seems you might be reinforcing (suggesting, and then approving "right answers") things that might not be true.
Sylvia Woodman: I've never heard of anything like that before MomInME.
Sandra Dodd: Too much talk will prevent them from really listening to their own bodies, it won't assist them.
Sandra Dodd: -=-we tested out different foods and how we felt after them.-=-
AlexPolikowsky7: Too much talking about food MominMe. I did that when my son was two. I told him the store bought cookie was not as good because the ingredients were not so good. One day my son said he wanted the store bought cookie and he did not mind if it was not good for him. I realize what I was doing! Making my son feel guilty for liking something I told him was bad for him. That was the last time I did something like that.
Sandra Dodd: It sounds like the "test" is a manipulation, and you're "guiding" them toward "right answers." That's not balance.
Katja: may I suggest that the testing may also result in children getting stuck with one of their claims and find it hard to change their preference
Sylvia Woodman: I always thought getting enough sleep is what helps with focus. At least that seems true for me.
Amber: I do see that my daughter is developing preferences - she turns down jelly beans - and also sweetened cereal. She prefers plain oaty-o's to the sweetened kind - so I can see that by trying some of these ideas, she is already turning some sweets down
Sandra Dodd: Maybe the children love your approval, MominME, and so will agree to what you seem to want them to say.
JennyC: My parents used to force bananas on me as a kid. I hated them. I disliked the way they smelled. They gave me a headache. But if I was hungry, especially if we were traveling, my only option was banana chips because my parents thought it was the perfect snack food. All these years later and it turns out that I'm actually allergic to bananas. My oldest kid is also allergic to bananas.
Sandra Dodd: Without real, open-field choices, they can't make their own choices.
Virginia W: I think how we feel about what we eat is at least as important as what we eat.
Sylvia Woodman: Yes! Bananas make Jim nauseous. He can't be around them.
Sandra Dodd: At least it's gradual, to move from management of foods to more choices. :)
MomInME: It's something that has worked for our family very well and we all love experimenting with food. We find videos that inspire us to try new foods and prepare them in different ways. It makes eating food fun. They also are learning like I have how it effects how we feel and act.
Sandra Dodd: If a mom HAS been controlling or manipulative about food and she suddenly says "Eat whatever you want," the kids are likely to be afraid.
Sylvia Woodman: That's a really good and important point Virginia!
Sandra Dodd: -=- They also are learning like I have how it effects how we feel and act.-=-
Sandra Dodd: -=- They also are learning like I have how it effects how we feel and act.-=-
Sandra Dodd: Not unless you learned it from your mom before you could read, they're not.
Sandra Dodd: They're learning it from you, with you, and not in an unschooling way, it doesn't sound like.
AlexPolikowsky7: Also there is a lot of misconceptions and pseudoscience about food out there and parents feel guilty of their children are not eating the "Roger" doida
AlexPolikowsky7: Eating the right foods!
JennyC: You can be inspired by food without passing value judgements about which foods are good or bad or which food you believe will make you feel good or not.
Sandra Dodd: Young children will agree to a LOT of things to please parents. Sometimes horrible things.
AlexPolikowsky7: Roger Doida is autocorrected . to portuguese! !
Sylvia Woodman: Cool Alex!
Amber: I was making monkey platters, and at first I would just put out a plate full of veggies and dip! ha - then I read the page of suggestions of what to put on a monkey platter and I have that posted in my kitchen. Still, I was forgetting to also put a popsicle on the monkey platter! so sometimes I will give the popsicle first - my daughter's face just lights up with joy!
Robin B.: Eating food has always been fun for me.
Sandra Dodd: So please go easy on thinking that a child's agreement is the same as critical thought and honest appraisal. If they don't really have the leeway or freedom to say "Candy makes me a genius," but they're being guided toward discovering that something makes them think slowly, it's better to see it as something the mom has led them to "discover."
Katja: back to 'gradual' change: so ideally, how should one gradually change to food freedom? make a 'plan' on which restrictions to lift first, second, third - or just go by what feels good to let go of? But that is exactly what tripped me up: I didn't and still don't have a good gut feeling for what to let go and this is how we went way overboard.
Sandra Dodd: I've never put a popsicle on a monkey platter.
AlexPolikowsky7: It is easy to manipulate little kids and control them to do and eat things we thing is best for them. They get older and all that goes down the drain and that is when kids will react to control
Amber: so what does that mean, Sandra? would you only wait until the child asked for it?
Virginia W: I grew up around extreme food control and disordered eating that was characterized as being "for health".
JennyC: The key problem that I see is the idea of food freedom
Sandra Dodd: It means I was the first one to do monkey platters, it was my idea, and that I don't think it's "forgetting" if you don't put a popsicle on it.
Sandra Dodd: Are you thinking a monkey platter needs to be everything you have in your house? :-)
Amber: well, meaning, to offer the thing that she has been expressing a strong interest in?
Sandra Dodd: If she's been expressing a strong interest, why wait for a monkey platter? Give it to her when she asks.
Sandra Dodd: It's messy. It's not a finger food. it's not one thing to mix and match with various other things. It's a thing to be eaten all by itself.
Serah: kids can sense even the slightest changes in tone and energy that mom may have towards certain foods.
Sandra Dodd: If you're moving from rules and measurements and prohibitions, let them eat more. Let them eat less.
Sandra Dodd: If they ask for another cookie you could say "Okay! Do you want milk, too?"
Sandra Dodd: Don't say "Yes, but only one more" and don't say "Yes, as many as you want."
Sandra Dodd: Say "yes."
Amber: I'm sorry if this chat is evolving into food - but I guess for me, gradual change is wrapped up in my understanding of food choices!!
regan joined the chat 4 hours ago
AlexPolikowsky7: I don't either Sandra. My kids know where the Popsicle, candy or whatever is. They just go and get it if they want. My monkey platters were frutis, cheese, meet, crackers and stuff like that.
Sandra Dodd: Or "Sure," or "Maybe wait until after dinner" if food is about to be put on the table.
JennyC: Right, just give her the thing she's asking for. A monkey platter, at least my take on it, is it's a way to feed a hungry kid who may not realize they are hungry, because they are busy, and to give them little odd bits of things that are cut interesting, with an interesting mix of flavors and textures that are appealing.
Sandra Dodd: It depends. There is no response that shouldn't be an "it depends" kind of answer, honestly.
Sandra Dodd: -=-the idea of food freedom-=-
Sandra Dodd: -=-the idea of food freedom-=-
Sandra Dodd: "Freedom" doesn't help it.
AlexPolikowsky7: Can I have a cookie? Yes
Sandra Dodd: Food options is a better way to think of it.
AlexPolikowsky7: That is how you lift limits.
Sandra Dodd: Lack of food restrictions. :-)
AlexPolikowsky7: Can I have another? Sure
Sandra Dodd: If parents "made" kids taste everything, don't to it. Let them refuse just on the basis of prior experience, or appearance, or smell.
AlexPolikowsky7: If they keep asking I would bring a monkey platter to them. They maybe just hungry and need some protein
Sandra Dodd: It's healthier anyway to turn down a food because it looks or smells dangerous or wrong.
Virginia W: I have a related question
Sandra Dodd: I didn't want monkey platters to be messy foods, so I never put dip on them. Dip was other people's idea.
Sandra Dodd: I wanted things they could eat while playing video games or doing art projects or watching TV.
Robin B.: I think trying new foods and experimenting with recipes shouldn't be to elicit an outcome of "how does this make me feel" especially if I would have to say so, once I ate it. Eating shouldn't be a lesson, I don't think. How food makes someone feel is their own business. If they want to have something else, it should be okay without "how does that make you feel?" on top of it.
AlexPolikowsky7: My kids don't like dips so I also never put in them
Sandra Dodd: I agree, Robin
Virginia W: Me, too
AlexPolikowsky7: Yes Robin! Thank you!
Sandra Dodd: If a parent is having a difficult time with how to consider food, or sleep, think about other things. Reading. Math. History. Would you, after a child came and told you he had learned something cool about castles, ask him how it made him feel?
Robin B.: I like "Does it taste good?" "Does it make me want to lick the plate, even in a restaurant?" "What else would taste good with it?"
Sandra Dodd: Would you "test" how learning the alphabet made him feel, as compared to counting by fives?
Sandra Dodd: Living more lightly, openly, gently, in ALL aspects will lead toward unschooling success.
Sandra Dodd: You like this when, Robin? ""Does it make me want to lick the plate, even in a restaurant?"
MomInME: Ah, but when you want to eat foods that help you focus on gaming and my little man does intensely, it made him want to experiment with his food.
AlexPolikowsky7: I bought some baby portobello mushrooms and Gigi wanted to eat them. I made some and she tried. She said they were okay but she did not want to eat them any mores
AlexPolikowsky7: Anymore
Sandra Dodd: MomInME, I think it's a very bad idea for you to suggest to him that there are foods that will immediately make him better at video gaming.
MomInME: My daughter wanted more energy for biking, so she tested out how she felt after eating certain foods before bike riding. It was a fun and personal choice.
Sandra Dodd: That's not the way brains or video games work.
Sandra Dodd: To use food to manage moods and behaviors isn't healthy.
Virginia W: Food that helps me focus on gaming is something I can eat with one hand, one bite at a time (maybe in loading screens) and that won't make my fingers messy.
MomInME: What makes it wrong to experiment?
Sandra Dodd: It's not the way bodies and brains work.
Sandra Dodd: I doubt the children are experimenting on their own. You're telling them that some foods do one thing and some foods do another.
JennyC: Our bodies change all the time. What makes someone feel great one day, may not the very next.
AlexPolikowsky7: Food that make you focus? Having some protein and food that also has some sugar helps focus! But it will be different for everyone. And you cannot really know what is making someone focus less one day. They maybe tired, that part of the game maybe boring for them.
Robin B.: If something is that tasty that I want to lick the plate clean. I would want to, in a restaurant, but I wouldn't because it's impolite. But it's a test of how totally yummy it is!
MomInME: I did not suggest he test out food. My husband and I constantly discuss how it effects us because my husband
Sandra Dodd: There were parents claiming for years that sugar made kids hyperactive. NO experiments proved that. Experiments showed that the moms were making claims to support their belief, not that the belief was valid.
MomInME: 's behavior is directly effected by food.
Sandra Dodd: Constant discussion can be a problem.
Robin B.: But your kids are not you or your husband.
Sandra Dodd: "affected." If you're going to make the claim, please use the right word.
JennyC: And not everyone's behavior is impacted by food
Sandra Dodd: I don't think ANYone's behavior is immediatly impacted by food.
Serah: and tastebuds are constantly changing.
Serah: every three weeks new onese
AlexPolikowsky7: Being hungry can affect people but that is lack of food and not a specific food!
Virginia W: Well, there is the placebo and nocebo effect
Serah: are being formed, so it's sometimes food we didn't like before now we like them
Sandra Dodd: For years, unschooling discussions were pelted by frightened claims about sugar. That has calmed down.
Sandra Dodd: http://sandradodd.com/sugar
AlexPolikowsky7: Not even the After Thanksgiving Turkey coma is really true!
Sandra Dodd: MomInME, if you haven't seen those studies about sugar, please read there and follow links. Moms were SWEARING to see what they were afraid of when it wasn't there.
Sandra Dodd: Now it's gluten.
Virginia W: People have just started calming down about fat, but gluten is taking over for that
Sandra Dodd: That will pass too.
AlexPolikowsky7: True Virginia! Placebo and Nocebo effect!
JennyC: I have a friend that loves carrots and keeps them around as snacks because they give her that little boost of snack energy she needs. I'm not a fan of raw carrots. I prefer potato chips or an apple or nuts of an orange. All of those things would feel better to me than carrots. If my friend suggested that carrots would lift my mood and give me a boost of energy, I'd probably want her to shush.
Amber: I'm hearing a lot about the GAPS diet supposedly curing a million things, now too.
Serah: gluten is the new evil
Sandra Dodd: If you're not familiar with these videos, there are lots of them, and they're pretty great.
Robin B.: Food should be pleasurable *and* a way to provide fuel. Otherwise, what is the point? People who lose their senses of taste and smell don't even like to eat anymore and frankly, probably don't care how food makes them feel.
Sandra Dodd: Kids tell stories, and their dads (who are brothers) act them out, lip-synching the kids' stories.
Robin B.: Jenny, raw carrots make my throat itch. Better cooked, for me.
Sandra Dodd: Not all the kids are their own kids—their kids and friends, cousins, I think.
Virginia W: I've seen some of those
Sandra Dodd
AlexPolikowsky7: GAPS DIET- read this https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/gap...
Amber: Chocolate makes my throat burn, and sugar makes my teeth hurt. I still eat both.
Sandra Dodd: This one is quite revealing, about things those kids have heard from adults.
Sandra Dodd: The very last line of the whole video is great. :-)
AlexPolikowsky7: I love those videos! So funny!
Virginia W: Amber: sugar started making my teeth hurt. Sensodyne! It works!
Sandra Dodd: I feel really sorry for kids who are believing those messages. It's kind of abusive. And it totally ruins their own ability to learn about foods naturally and gradually as they get older.
Robin B.: It strikes me that being a nutritionist is a little like being a teacher. Teachers who unschool can have a heck of a time getting over the fact that learning happens without teaching. I would think it might be the same with someone schooled in nutrition. Every food and eating experience has a layer of "knowledge"on top of it.
Robin B.: But I could be wrong!
JennyC: I love that video!
Amber: all it takes is having one student who you know school isn't working for them to be able to easily see the benefit from unschooling
Serah: omg! this is great! sadly, though im related to people who tell their kids these types of things ;-(
AlexPolikowsky7: Food has become a religion!!
Sandra Dodd: My children learned to listen to their own bodies in ways I didn't know were possible AT ALL. Without being told what foods might or did do what, they figured lots of things out, gradually, over years, about what they liked or what they needed, as they were getting sick, or were wanting to be more awake, or to be sleepy. They just knew.
Virginia W: I had an acquaintance (she's moved far away) who convinced her child that she was literally allergic to sugar.
Virginia W: Either she's just lying, it she has a very poor understanding of how the body works. I don't know which is more distressing.
Sandra Dodd: They knew what would help them if they were getting constipated—and though sometimes they would ask for ideas, they were discovering things on their own, because it's different for different people.
Sandra Dodd: For me, instant hot chocolate.:-) I don't know if it's warm powdered milk or what, but if I "need to go," instant hot chocolate usually helps. :-)
regan: My sister was told by my mom, right before college, that she was allergic to beer. (So my sister wouldn't drink at school.) Luckily some new friend at college saw the unlikelihood of that scenario and put it to the test. "I will DRIVE you to the emergency room if anything happens," he said.
Serah: I agree Alex, and for those of us who avoid certain foods because of religion it really wasn't fair of me to limit other foods because of what I thought was healthy at the time.
Sandra Dodd: Gradual change for food or limits can be thinking each time, and being more likely to say "okay" than before.
Robin B.: My daughter loves chocolate and has from a young age. Sometimes, what makes her feel good is a handful of Ferraro Rocher hazelnut chocolates. Last night, though, she said, "I need fish." So she had an appetizer of seared ahi and a main course of mahi mahi. I never said anything about fish being good for her or asked her how it made her feel. She knows when she needs something. She'll ask. And I'll do my best to make/get it, if I can.
Sandra Dodd: If the parent goes too quickly, then it's not really unschooling at all. It's a wild departure from what makes sense to them.
Sandra Dodd: That's not healthy, or good
JennyC: My sister convinced her children that sugar was just as bad as rat poison and so her kids were alarmed by the fact that my kids would eat rat poison.
Robin B.: That's heinous, Jenny.
AlexPolikowsky7: Serah - I think eating certain foods is what has become religion! I am okay with not eating certain foods if a person follows a religion.
Sandra Dodd: That's why "Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch" helps EVERYONE involved. Not that the children should be doing the reading. :-)
Sandra Dodd: But the parents gradually understand better.
Coco joined the chat
Serah: yeah, i got that Alex ;)
Sandra Dodd: As they see that there are no dire consequences, they might relax, more, gradually.
Robin B.: Regan, your sister had a smart friend!
Sandra Dodd: I'm goint to go back and take something back.
Sandra Dodd: I don't think one specific food is going to magically produce an effect, but a type of food can help, right?
Sandra Dodd: Like cabohydrates before a workout and protein after?
Sandra Dodd: Like sugar on a hike, or a snack if one is exerting and out in sunshine and high elevation, more ater, and protein bars with sugar.
AlexPolikowsky7: It is interesting to see how kids develop their own tastes! My son does not drink pop. He did when he was younger. He has not in a couple of years. Non I think! He will rather drink water!
regan: Certain medicines have to be taken on an empty/full stomach, or with/without juice, dairy...
Sandra Dodd: Some people (Holly included, and me, but not others in our family) can get a headache from lack of protein, but it's going to be hours of it—18 or 20 hours without protein, and I might get a headache.
Sandra Dodd: Not WILL get a headache, but depending on other factors, if I have a headache and I think back to what I've eaten, sometimes I eat protein and am better in half an hour or so.
Sandra Dodd: But it's not so specific that if I want to be friendly for two hours I must eat two eggs.
JennyC: My youngest tends to eat the same thing for days and then something else for days. Right now it's sandwiches made with plain white bread, mayo, spinach, tomato, onion, and avocado. Several times a day. I keep buying more tomato and avocado
AlexPolikowsky7: Yes Sandra. So to focus you need some protein and some carbs. The simple carbs like sucrose, fructose are good!
Sandra Dodd: That's a bit too much of food magic. :-)
Coco: Hello! I am myself a beginner and making gradual changes, with food and technology, with my 2 year old. What worries me is not sugar, but for example persticides and all the chemicals present sometimes in the industrialized food. Sometimes the industry adds more salt than what is healthy just to make it more tasty. And if the laws doesn't prevent it to happen, like they do in some country, should the parent not be aware of those risks?
Sandra Dodd: Coco, if you focus on that and the danger of the world to your child, you won't be a soft, gentle mom.
AlexPolikowsky7: Coco all good is chemicals
Sandra Dodd: If you scare her, and yourself, if it's not necessary, you'll be living with the pesticides instead of living with your family.
Sandra Dodd: http://sandradod.docm/negativity.
Sandra Dodd: That period will keep that from working. Oh. And the docm instead of .com
Sandra Dodd: Sorry.
Sandra Dodd: http://sandradodd.com/negativity
Robin B.: Alex means "all food is chemicals." :-)
Sandra Dodd: (I hope I'll fix it in the transcript)
JennyC: You could grow foods that you eat a lot of. That's what I do with tomatoes and various herbs.
AlexPolikowsky7: Pesticides- https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/pes...
AlexPolikowsky7: Yes thank you Robin!
Virginia W: Ha, I'll say it: all good is chemicals. I'm chemicals. You're chemicals.
Sandra Dodd: https://jameskennedymonash.wordpress.com...
Sandra Dodd: Look down at some of those posters. I bought the set. They're beautifully printed.
Amber: I had an acquaintance tell me it's important to be afraid of things like chemicals because of what we learned (too late?) about lead. I feel like it would be too many things to be afraid of in the world. My husband likes to point out that humans are very bad at risk assessment.
AlexPolikowsky7: The chemicals in your food coco
Sandra Dodd: Some people seem to be addicted to fear.
Amber: cool posters
AlexPolikowsky7: http://io9.gizmodo.com/what-if-natural-p...
Katja: In an attempt to gain more insight and visuals about unschooling, we watched 'being and becoming'. Really nice to watch but it left me with the idea that unschoolers are a peculiar breed.
Sandra Dodd: Same posters, Alex. :-)
Sandra Dodd: It's not the best intro, Katja.
Sandra Dodd: These are way better: http://unschoolingsupport.com
Coco: I loved being and becoming...
JennyC: I eat tuna even though it has mercury. I love it. I could eat it nearly everyday. If I get sushi, I get tuna. I like it raw or cooked. It's so good to me that I don't care about the mercury content.
AlexPolikowsky7: Unschoolers are not a peculiar breed :) they are very different from each other and do very different things
Katja: And am not sure I like the image. I want to fit in and have friends outside of the unschooling community.
Amber: I own the movie Class Dismissed - it doesn't illustrate making changes very much.
Virginia W: People casually lived with the ill effects of being around lots of lead for millennia. To them, the benefits outweighed the risks.
Robin B.: Wrong image, Katja. Yes, unschooling does attract some peculiar people. But do you think we have no friends outside the "community?" :-)
Sandra Dodd: Jenny, people with healthy livers can eat tuna a few times a week. Not many people DO eat it that much.
JennyC: Oh Katja, I've found very few unschoolers that I relate to well. The vast majority of my friends are NOT unschoolers.
Coco: I try just to prevent him to access the things I would not be glad to see him eating all day or doing all day. The most important for me is not to say No for food or activities, so I don't pass fears to him or make him less confident about his choices
Katja: I did not mean to offend. I AM an unschooled in the making - hoping to be one in the not so distant future.
JennyC: I don't eat it that much either. I could though because I do like it that much.
Sandra Dodd: Coco, if he's visiting and wants a food you don't usually have at your house, would you let him have it? Like if you were at my house?
Katja: Silly spell check. 'Unschooler'
Robin B.: At this age, Coco, you have control of what you have in the house and what you buy outside the house. But there will come a time when your child will have preferences of his own.
Amber: Katja, have you read this page: http://sandradodd.com/joy
Sandra Dodd: Being and becoming wasn't made by an experienced unschooler, and some of her examples were extreme. And one person she really likes is a questionable source. :-)
AlexPolikowsky7: Coco your child is probably very young. You can't keep preventing him from doing what he wants of eating what he wants for very long :)
Sandra Dodd: Without more detail... it's not something I think anyone should depend on as a solid introl
Robin B.: No offence taken, Katja!
Sandra Dodd: The intro I like best these days is by Pam Laricchia.
Sandra Dodd: http://livingjoyfully.ca/exploringunscho...
Robin B.: Yes! ^
AlexPolikowsky7: Yes for Pam^^^^
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JennyC: I've known some extreme examples of parenting, unschoolers and non unschoolers. At least the one who were wildly crazy and we're NOT unschoolers, those kids could have access to other adults who weren't wildly crazy.
Serah: I have a 2 year old in a home with older kids, who has access to all types of food. She likes to look at what others are eating, sometimes try it and sometimes not. We try our best to not limit or label things.
AlexPolikowsky7: Oh my gosh Serah!! She is 2!! She was such a tiny baby !!!!!
Sandra Dodd: It's WAY easier to limit an only child than a second or third, that's for sure. :-)
Serah: yeah, like yesterday!!! She is growing up too fast!
JennyC: One extreme, a kid I know grew up in a home where the there were locks on food cupboards.
Robin B.: Katja, I understand wanting to fit in. Sometimes, people want to fit in with unschoolers without understanding why they are doing what unschoolers do. That's often what leads to jumping in too fast and making decisions that are not good for everyone in the family.
Sandra Dodd: Those kids go and eat at the neighbors' :-)
Virginia W: :(
Robin B.: That kid went to eat at Jenny's.
JennyC: Yep, exactly Sandra
AlexPolikowsky7: Oh for sure!! When Gigi was born and Daniel was 3 there was no way to control !! She was eating. What we were eating!
Sandra Dodd: Yes. Rather than become an unschooler by visuals, or by meeting some and copying them, it's better to gradually find out WHY they're doing what they're doingl
Sandra Dodd: The "what" can be very misleading and look different in different families. The "why" is where to look.
JennyC: And I've met kids who have never ever tasted a fresh cherry, and that kid was 11
Sandra Dodd: What else is a problem with too far too fast?
Sandra Dodd: We're running out of time.
Coco: that is true! but I think his palate gets used to healthy food :) his cousins like only sugar, they eat all day so they don't eat anything during the meals. He just eats everyting. When we are outside and travelling yes he tastes all different kinds of candies and food. Even at home as we have black chocolate and things he sometimes sees and asks
Virginia W: Snapping back.
Katja: Bedtime is a problem!
Coco: My child is passionate about youtube airplanes videos,
Sandra Dodd: I think it would help newe people to listen to the very short, very happy podcasts on Amy Child's page here: http://unschoolingsupport.com
Coco: he saw with his father and grandfather,
Sandra Dodd: -=-I think his palate gets used to healthy food-=-
Sandra Dodd: -=-I think his palate gets used to healthy food-=-
Amber: the advice to not do anything you don't understand - that's helpful too... it encourages more reading and/or asking questions before making drastic changes
Katja: amy is my friend. We talk regularly. So there is hope for me. ;-)
Sandra Dodd: If you call some food "healthy food" that will be a problem. Food is not "healthy" or "unhealthy." People might be, but don't define foods that way.
Coco: now I won't be able to have my computer near him all day as he will ask me for videos haha I will have to remove the computer or buy him one
Sandra Dodd: Talking to Amy isn't the same as listening to those podcasts.
Sandra Dodd: Honestly.
JennyC: So, because I've seen extreme parenting, in regards to lots of things, not just food, and not always unschoolers, it seemed better to not be extreme. It seemed better to be calm and kind and offer lots of ideas and varieties and premise some things with "I could be wrong."
Sandra Dodd: There are some people who know me, and so they don't read what I write, because they know me. And it's irritating. :-)
AlexPolikowsky7: Palates gets used to only healthy food? I know kids that grew up with only "healthy" food that would eat everything they could that was considered "junk" when they left home because now they could!!
Sandra Dodd: Some of them have been very BAD at unschooling, but they think somehow it will pass by osmosis. it doesn't. It must be learned and internalized.
Sandra Dodd: -=-now I won't be able to have my computer near him all day as he will ask me for videos haha I will have to remove the computer or buy him one-=-
Sandra Dodd: -=-now I won't be able to have my computer near him all day as he will ask me for videos haha I will have to remove the computer or buy him one-=-
Virginia W: Why not play the videos for him?
Sandra Dodd: Why are videos bad? Watch videos with him. Don't use "have to" so loosely. http://sandradodd.com/haveto
Sandra Dodd: It will keep you from thinking clearly, if you think "have to."
Virginia W: You could get him a tablet.
Robin B.: ~ I will have to remove the computer or buy him one ~ Which choice would increase your connection to your son?
Virginia W: My daughter treasures hey computer, she got her own at 6.
Coco: now I just remove my computer and it is better as I am not distracted
Sandra Dodd: I'm going to repeat this in case anyone missed it. It's good to see twice, anyway: Amber: the advice to not do anything you don't understand - that's helpful too... it encourages more reading and/or asking questions before making drastic changes
AlexPolikowsky7: ㅔinteresting article- https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle...
Sandra Dodd: Distracted from what? If he likes airplane videos, how is that a distraction? It's following his interest.
Coco: but I feel I perhaps should watch videos with him all day instead of laughing together building houses and legos and running outside...
Coco: distractred by my mails I meant
JennyC: But Coco, you can do both at once!
Robin B.: There is inherent judgment in that sentence ^
Sandra Dodd: "All day"? Can't you laugh together while watching videos?
Amber: we do all of those things - sometimes at the same time
Coco: heh
Sylvia Woodman left the chat 4 hours ago
Serah: can you do all that as well? it's not one or the other.
Robin B.: The "watch videos all day instead of..." I mean.
Coco: Yes I can try for the moment he seems he will never want to stop viewing the videos unless we say now we have the family dinner for example
Virginia W: If you have made watching videos valuable by withholding it, he might want to watch videos all day.
Amber: we have dinner while watching videos too
Serah: so do we :-)
Coco: but we don't like that,
Coco: and he wants to change every 3 seconds the video
Virginia W: Sometimes I want to watch videos all day.
Virginia W: Who is we?
Virginia W: What is wrong with changing the video?
Coco: my husband and I and now the grand parents as we are at their home
Coco: that we prefer to chat as being changing the videos while we are eating
AlexPolikowsky7: I want to watch Korean Dramas all day! And sometimes I do! But I have choices so that happens rarely ;)
Coco: he is not upset very long,
Coco: he also loves to be at the table chating with us and eating
Serah: my 2 year old will not watch all day of anything. She has faourite shows and such, but frequently decides for herself when she is "all done".
Coco: but if he eats alone we let him watch videos
Coco: yes I feel I could try I am just affraid of it being too far too fast for me
Sandra Dodd: The dentist's office has me on the line
AlexPolikowsky7: Coco it seems you are very new to Unschooling . The best thing for you now would be to read Pam Larrichia's free book on Exploring Unschooling. Link is posts above by Sandra and listening to some of Amy Child's podcasts. Then come to a chat like this or a group a d ask questions.
Sandra Dodd: I was going to have dental surgery late in the month and they want to change it to tomorrow, kind of suddenly. VERY suddenly. Sorry I had kind of disappeared. :-)
Sandra Dodd: Coco, it's hard to unschool in someone else's home. Not easy.
AlexPolikowsky7: Oh my Sandra!!
Coco: I read it already, but yes I am new sorry if it is not the place for those questions
Sandra Dodd: Go gradually, especially if you have a child who's not school-aged yet.
Amber: Oh, this reminds me I have a question - we have friends who seem to have their video watching limited - when they come over, we show them videos that we have access to, which they don't (no Netflix at home) and since we've seen them over and over, my kid wants to play while watching but the others are seeing it for the first time and thus don't want to also play - I was thinking of only letting the kids (3, 4, 5 years old) watch videos together if it's new to all of them, because otherwise my daughter gets sad that nobody is playing with her (though I will then offer to play)
Sandra Dodd: But go with what helps the relationship and what involves learning.
Sandra Dodd: We had kids who weren't allowed TV. Kirby would ask me to have the TV off when they came over. They would stand and stare at ANYthing that was on TV, and Kirby wanted them to be able to get through the house to the back yard. They were fine, if the TV was off. IT was sad, and wrong.
AlexPolikowsky7: Amber since they are limited I would have not problem saying one Video and that is it. You are not Unschooling these children.
Sandra Dodd: -=-I read it already, but-=-
Sandra Dodd: -=-I read it already, but-=-
Sandra Dodd: Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch. :-)
Sandra Dodd: Nothing about unschooling does anything just for eading it once.
Sandra Dodd: reading it once.
Sandra Dodd: It's not like school-style reading, seriously.
Amber: thank you, Sandra and Alex
Serah: pam Larrichia's podcasts are also really nice
Sandra Dodd: I need to drive over to the dentist's office to get pills for tomorrow.
Sandra Dodd: Twilight sedation. Nice.
Sandra Dodd: But they close now, and are going to wait for me
Amber: good luck!!!!
AlexPolikowsky7: You are going today Sandra??
Amber: I remember taking steroids to avoid swelling with dental surgery - really helpful
JennyC: My kids have had many friends who had tv watching limited and would request that the tv be off while those kids were visiting because those kids would watch instead of play.
Coco: True, I want to reread that one, thank you!
Serah: oh, Sandra, my thoughts are with you.... I don't like anything dental related ;-(
JennyC: Oh, good luck with the dentist!
AlexPolikowsky7: I did the same with video games as my son wanted to play and all the kid wanted to do was play video games! And my son is a big time gamer!
AlexPolikowsky7: Well I would stay and chat ......
AlexPolikowsky7: I got tons to do :)
AlexPolikowsky7: Bye!!!!
Serah: thanks for the chat!
Amber: bye Alex
Serah: bye Alex
JennyC: I'm making cake and pizza for a belated bday party
Virginia W: Me too. Bye guys!
JennyC: Bye all
Coco: bye!
Amber: I really enjoy these chats. Always sad when they end.
Serah: bye!!!
Sylvia Woodman: Sorry I was playing Battleship with Harry and then I got behind so I was reading in review mode. This was a good chat. I really enjoyed it. Thanks Sandra.
Sylvia Woodman: We have houseguests arriving for the weekend and I need to move dishes out and into the dishwasher and make sure the sheets are on the guest bed.
Sylvia Woodman: Take care everyone!
Sandra Dodd joined the chat 3 minutes ago
Sandra Dodd: Someone posted in Always Learning, a story that might help with some of the questions above.
I had written:
-- that IF someone can control the (imagined) purity of foods they ingest, that they will have near-magical results)—intelligence, creativity, long life. --
Cass Kotrba responded:
My daughter has always preferred sweet and starchy foods. She also has asthma & allergies. I went through a period for a few years where I tightly controlled our food in hopes that doing so would improve my daughter's health. Well guess what- controlling her diet never did resolve her health issues but controlling her food definitely created conflict in our relationship.
When we started unschooling I stopped my controlling and she started exploring all of the foods that had been previously forbidden. For over a year she ate those previously forbidden foods almost exclusively and had no interest in the foods that she ate during the controlled period. We would search the aisles of the grocery store looking for foods that appealed to her. We bought variety packs so she & her brother could try lots of different things.
I would promise her that I was never going to go back to controlling her food and she would look me dead in the eye and say "I don't believe you."
It took a long time and a pattern of being trustworthy to earn her trust back. Eventually she returned to choosing foods because they felt and tasted good, not because they had been previously forbidden. Once her emotions around food finally settled back down I realized that she was choosing basically the same foods that she'd chosen during her pre-controlled years.
She has always known what her body needs more than I have. That makes sense since she's the one living in it!
Here's the biggest thing I've noticed with this experience - when I stopped controlling her food and started implementing unschooling principles HER HEALTH GOT BETTER. Asthma symptoms decreased and became less intense. Her skin used to be dry & have little bumps on it and it gradually became soft and smooth. *** As her life became easier and happier her health improved. ***
Emotions have a huge effect on health. Instead of focusing energy on controlling and bringing balance it is more effective to focus on bringing joy, acceptance and laughter.
(Cass Kotrba, Thursday, April 7, 2016, in a topic called "Another Food Question")
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Amber Ivey sent a later note:
I was looking through my file of my favorite collected unschooling quotes, and I came across this one:
"If you are sitting on the couch chatting with adults, then you are not with your child. You are placing more importance on your social time with the other adults than you are placing on your children. If I want to socialize with adults without being interrupted, I arrange to do things without my children. Otherwise, I simply plan to be interrupted. If you see or hear your child in distress, it is okay to say, "Excuse me, I need to go check on my child." All of the adults in my life know this about me. If I am around an adult that balks at the idea of me stopping mid-sentence to help my toddler or young children, then I am probably not going to make plans with them with my children again. It's that simple. My kids come first."
And it made me think of last week's chat when Katja was asking about chasing her toddler around versus talking to other adults.
_______________________________
Amber Ivey sent a later note:
I was looking through my file of my favorite collected unschooling quotes, and I came across this one:
"If you are sitting on the couch chatting with adults, then you are not with your child. You are placing more importance on your social time with the other adults than you are placing on your children. If I want to socialize with adults without being interrupted, I arrange to do things without my children. Otherwise, I simply plan to be interrupted. If you see or hear your child in distress, it is okay to say, "Excuse me, I need to go check on my child." All of the adults in my life know this about me. If I am around an adult that balks at the idea of me stopping mid-sentence to help my toddler or young children, then I am probably not going to make plans with them with my children again. It's that simple. My kids come first."
And it made me think of last week's chat when Katja was asking about chasing her toddler around versus talking to other adults.
